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Should all road users pay road tax? If so, how much should it be for cyclists ?

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Deank

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..... aims to ensure that, by 2020, 10 per cent of all journeys in Scotland are by bike.

Seems to me we're talk'n a lot of money there, as opposed to here where journeys would account for .001% or so....Wink\

But we should return to having licence plates for bikes. imho.

grumpy old man

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The reaction was predictable. But of course all road users should pay.


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St Norberter

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That's a interesting question. How would it be charged? similar to a toll road where users get charged by trip? I'm thinking a system similar to 407etr in Toronto.
If that was the case I think the costs for cyclists should be significantly less when riding on a bike path and even less when riding on a road. Reasoning? While the initial cost for bike paths may be high in relation to number of users, I would expect that the total cost of ownership would be much lower because bicycles put much less wear and tear on the surface than cars.
Now if you are talking about a flat fee, then how do you regulate that, and given that the number of cyclists that don't own cars vs. the total number of cyclists would be relatively low ( I think), why bother charging for them? just spread that cost out over car, I think it would be harldly noticible, and the increased administrative costs in this scenario would probably make it more expense to spread these costs out among no-car bike owners as well.

http://bgilchrist.wordpress.com/

grumpy old man

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The only fair way to assess fees is a license fee. A small flat fee should do it.


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Freeman

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AGreed, with cyclists wanting and receiving more in the way of infrastructure to accomodate them, its only appropriate that they pay towards it. Flat tax or license fee makes sense. Heavy fines for those without.

Miz point

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I doubt it would work.....so how many cops we gonna need or waste to go after cyclists? Sounds far-fetched....we gonna go after the kids who ride their bikes to school? Think long and hard about this one.


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grumpy old man

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Yes, have the cops chase down unlicensed toddlers. AND, make them carry insurance too.

Look, the cyclists want fair access. They want dedicated lanes. Let them pay just as the motorists pay. Frick em. Fair is fair.


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Miz point

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I will pay when motorists realize that I too have to follow the same rules, am given the same courtesies when signalling a lane change so I can f*cking turn without getting killed, am not run over by buses in lanes where it is clearly marked that i too have priority, am not yelled at to get on the sidewalk where i belong by idiot motorists....my list of complaints is long.....I follow the rules almost slavishly and many times I have been injured by thoughtless motorists who when clearly in the wrong still choose to rebuke me.....I will pay when there are more bike trails....

We have been asking for decent trails for well over thirty years.....yesterday's announcement elicited a whoop de do response from me...should have been done years ago.....


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LivingDead

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grumpy old man wrote:Yes, have the cops chase down unlicensed toddlers. AND, make them carry insurance too.

Look, the cyclists want fair access. They want dedicated lanes. Let them pay just as the motorists pay. Frick em. Fair is fair.

I like the idea of making them carry insurance. If one of them hits my car and scratches it they should pay. Like you say... Fair is Fair.

http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/youare

St Norberter

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grumpy old man wrote:Yes, have the cops chase down unlicensed toddlers. AND, make them carry insurance too.

Look, the cyclists want fair access. They want dedicated lanes. Let them pay just as the motorists pay. Frick em. Fair is fair.
Interesting, but flawed response.
Why? Do licence fees and insurance pay for infrastructure? No, infrastructure is paid for via taxes. As a homeowner, and a cyclist, I am already paying for cycling amenities they way our current system is set up.
Now if motor vehicle licenses and insurance went toward infrastructure, then your argument would make sense.

http://bgilchrist.wordpress.com/

St Norberter

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LivingDead wrote:
grumpy old man wrote:Yes, have the cops chase down unlicensed toddlers. AND, make them carry insurance too.

Look, the cyclists want fair access. They want dedicated lanes. Let them pay just as the motorists pay. Frick em. Fair is fair.

I like the idea of making them carry insurance. If one of them hits my car and scratches it they should pay. Like you say... Fair is Fair.
But how many car/bike accidents are the result of the actions of the cyclist? I don't have the stats, but my guess would be that drivers are responsible for many more bike/car accidents than bicycle riders are. And what are the consequences of these actions? If a cyclist gets into an accident with a car, who is going to get hurt? There is no physical risk of injury for the driver. The costs to the cyclist are much, much greater.
Insurance, sure. But if you want it to be fair and representative, then a) it will cost the cyclist about $20/year, and there won't be any liability limits for the cyclist, so make sure as a driver you are carrying a minimum of $5 million liability.

http://bgilchrist.wordpress.com/

Miz point

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RIGHT ON!!!!


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Miz point

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LivingDead wrote:
grumpy old man wrote:Yes, have the cops chase down unlicensed toddlers. AND, make them carry insurance too.

Look, the cyclists want fair access. They want dedicated lanes. Let them pay just as the motorists pay. Frick em. Fair is fair.

I like the idea of making them carry insurance. If one of them hits my car and scratches it they should pay. Like you say... Fair is Fair.

And what should the motorist pay me when they run me off the road, threaten me with harm, hit me with their doors as they exit their cars without looking......what should I get paid? Cops do not take cyclists' complaints too seriously.....I have filed countless complaints, given license tag numbers and NOTHING has been done. Fu*k that shite....like I said earlier I will pay when i am accorded the same respect UNDER THE LAW.

http://www.granhotelflores.blogspot.com

LivingDead

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St Norberter wrote:
LivingDead wrote:
grumpy old man wrote:Yes, have the cops chase down unlicensed toddlers. AND, make them carry insurance too.

Look, the cyclists want fair access. They want dedicated lanes. Let them pay just as the motorists pay. Frick em. Fair is fair.

I like the idea of making them carry insurance. If one of them hits my car and scratches it they should pay. Like you say... Fair is Fair.
But how many car/bike accidents are the result of the actions of the cyclist? I don't have the stats, but my guess would be that drivers are responsible for many more bike/car accidents than bicycle riders are. And what are the consequences of these actions? If a cyclist gets into an accident with a car, who is going to get hurt? There is no physical risk of injury for the driver. The costs to the cyclist are much, much greater.
Insurance, sure. But if you want it to be fair and representative, then a) it will cost the cyclist about $20/year, and there won't be any liability limits for the cyclist, so make sure as a driver you are carrying a minimum of $5 million liability.

Tell that to the person who was recently killed by a cyclist. The person was a pedestrian.


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St Norberter

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What does a pedestrian have to do with a cyclist scratching your car?

http://bgilchrist.wordpress.com/

grumpy old man

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Comparing (bicycle) fees to automotive license fees is disingenuous. Instead of comparing bicycle license fees to automotive license fees just think of them as paying their fair share. Put the bicycle fees into the infrastructure budget.

Makes sense eh? Linear thinking isn't always the most effective...


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Miz point

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How many pedestrians are injured or killed by motorists???? I would hazard a guess and say a damned sight more than are injured or killed by cyclists.


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grumpy old man

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St Norberter wrote:What does a pedestrian have to do with a cyclist scratching your car?

You're being very coy this afternoon aren't you?

Please open up thy mind for this debate... Or so help me I'll go all zander on your ass... Smile


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LivingDead

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St Norberter wrote:What does a pedestrian have to do with a cyclist scratching your car?

Insurance. Cyclists need insurance and they need to follow the laws of the road. Think about it. MPI has crazy rates for motorcyclists. The rates for non-powed cycles should be frigging astronomical if you use MPI's though processes.

So if a cyclist scratches my car, they must pay. But how would I know the guys name if he takes off. if he had a license plate then I could jot down the number and he would get charged with leave the scene of an accident.


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Miz point

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grumpy old man wrote:
St Norberter wrote:What does a pedestrian have to do with a cyclist scratching your car?

You're being very coy this afternoon aren't you?

Please open up thy mind for this debate... Or so help me I'll go all zander on your ass... Smile

Someone is feeling his feistiness today.....hmmmm......interesting.


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grumpy old man

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Miz point wrote:How many pedestrians are injured or killed by motorists???? I would hazard a guess and say a damned sight more than are injured or killed by cyclists.

So what? What has that to do with the price of tea in China.

Please go away and do extensive research. Discover how many motorists and cyclists are on the streets. Then calculate how many cyclists are killed by motorists. Then do the exact same math with pedestrians and cyclists.

Then do the same math but include the calculations of cyclists that are killed by motorists that are the cyclists fault. Then do the same with pedestrians and cyclists.

See ya in a couple days. Smile


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grumpy old man

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Miz point wrote:I will pay when motorists realize that I too have to follow the same rules, am given the same courtesies when signalling a lane change so I can f*cking turn without getting killed, am not run over by buses in lanes where it is clearly marked that i too have priority, am not yelled at to get on the sidewalk where i belong by idiot motorists....my list of complaints is long.....I follow the rules almost slavishly and many times I have been injured by thoughtless motorists who when clearly in the wrong still choose to rebuke me.....I will pay when there are more bike trails....

We have been asking for decent trails for well over thirty years.....yesterday's announcement elicited a whoop de do response from me...should have been done years ago.....

I've said this before and I'll say this until my dying breath: cyclists break far more rules every single day than cars do. Almost every cyclist I see goes through the red lights. Almost every cyclist I see passes me on the right. Almost every cyclist I see rides on the sidewalk.

So go ahead and be all indignant-like but you are so very wrong on this notion that car drivers are the evilist peeps on the road. It simply is not true.


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Miz point

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LivingDead wrote:
St Norberter wrote:What does a pedestrian have to do with a cyclist scratching your car?

Insurance. Cyclists need insurance and they need to follow the laws of the road. Think about it. MPI has crazy rates for motorcyclists. The rates for non-powed cycles should be frigging astronomical if you use MPI's though processes.

So if a cyclist scratches my car, they must pay. But how would I know the guys name if he takes off. if he had a license plate then I could jot down the number and he would get charged with leave the scene of an accident.

Why are you so worried about a cyclist scratching your car? chances are if its scratched it is because of some vandal or idiot in a parking lot perpetrating the act...if a cyclist does this to you perhaps you are not giving him/her enough room? There is a law regarding that......you may want to look it up.


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Miz point

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grumpy old man wrote:
Miz point wrote:How many pedestrians are injured or killed by motorists???? I would hazard a guess and say a damned sight more than are injured or killed by cyclists.

So what? What has that to do with the price of tea in China.

Please go away and do extensive research. Discover how many motorists and cyclists are on the streets. Then calculate how many cyclists are killed by motorists. Then do the exact same math with pedestrians and cyclists.

Then do the same math but include the calculations of cyclists that are killed by motorists that are the cyclists fault. Then do the same with pedestrians and cyclists.

See ya in a couple days. Smile

I am so gonna spank your ass GOM if it is the last thing I freakin' do......smart ass.

http://www.granhotelflores.blogspot.com

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