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why is it that the cops are the ones that had to do this?

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If I was born and raised in Shamattawa, and without much hope of ever getting out, I'd be sniffing glue too, probably.

I listened to a young kid from there being interviewed, and what he said shocked me.

He said that they were all told that children automatically went to heaven when they died. Some kill themselves before they become audults for this reason.

Think about that for a moment....the utter dispair that must be felt.

The sooner we close down the Reserve System the better imo.

Let these folks enjoy what we take for granted.

grumpy old man

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I will probably never understand the depths of despair those people feel. Not because I'm unwilling to learn, rather from a disbelief that the community elders aren't relentless in their efforts to do something about it.

Honest to God why is there no horizon for these peeps? What keeps them on the reserve?

Fix that. If education? Fix it. If bored? Fix it. If crime? Fix it. And keep fixing it.


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Why would anyone want to live in a remote area that has no future in it?

grumpy old man

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Why indeed? Until such time as they can find a way to leave the reserve and become productive citizens then they ought to be busting their butts day-in and day-out making the reserve a better place.


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Yes, I really am that Grumpy...

It's their, they're and there; in Canada it's colour, cheque, rumour and zed...

Miz point

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There is little accountability for the monies spent on reserves. There is, at first glance, little accountability on the part of the politicians (tribal councils and their beneficiaries) with regard to how they conduct themselves and how they govern. What we have is a system entrenched in infantilization and in some respects, almost feudal in nature. Speak up against corruption and one gets kicked off the rez. The most successful and visible voices in the First Nations community belong, in many cases, to those who are not on the rez. I wonder why?

There is little encouragement for younger, upwardly mobile First Nations to come back to the rez as professionals say in the much-needed areas of health care, education, recreation, civic planning and other trades. Why is this? One answer is obvious - if one does not wish to play politics and take sides then one will most likely not be employed or in many cases, get paid.

Imagine the monies that could be saved if say, dialysis machines with the attendant technicians and nurse practitioners (First Nations folks) were established in clinics in places like Garden Hill? Imagine if as a whole community folks were allowed to have a voice in the planning and running of their community? Gee, I thought the tribal councils were in effect, that voice.

I guess not. Like with any political entity one could apply the Shakespearean rub - Absolute power corrupts absolutely.


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Miz point

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grumpy old man wrote:Why indeed? Until such time as they can find a way to leave the reserve and become productive citizens then they ought to be busting their butts day-in and day-out making the reserve a better place.

Like something so simple as getting rid of the wrecked vehicles and appliances? Keeping the water system clean and sewage-free?

One compare and contrast I used to see a lot when driving number six back and forth from the north is the community of Grand Rapids. Cross the bridge headed south from the town proper and you hit the rez.....the difference was pretty obvious in terms of how the houses looked never mind the junkers laying around but just the appearance of the homes themselves.

Now why is that?


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Something to do with ownership perhaps? LOL

Upkeep and maintenance cost money actually, and most don't have it.

Miz point

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Ownership.....that is key. If the community is set up as a collective one then why can't the maintenance of said community be collectively-based as well? I just see a real disconnect here between the governing bodies and the very citizens who count on their governance. This has been going on for far too long and surely even Pav can see that many First Nations folks are fed up with the status quo.


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http://www.fcpp.org/publication.php/2858

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Miz point wrote:
grumpy old man wrote:Why indeed? Until such time as they can find a way to leave the reserve and become productive citizens then they ought to be busting their butts day-in and day-out making the reserve a better place.

Like something so simple as getting rid of the wrecked vehicles and appliances? Keeping the water system clean and sewage-free?

One compare and contrast I used to see a lot when driving number six back and forth from the north is the community of Grand Rapids. Cross the bridge headed south from the town proper and you hit the rez.....the difference was pretty obvious in terms of how the houses looked never mind the junkers laying around but just the appearance of the homes themselves.

Now why is that?

Being wards of the system the colonial past put together for them , if you understand the system .
You will see the end results of it , the places that they were put were not exactly the best areas . Nor was something called the Indian Act that ruled their lives for how many years . Gee the colonial settlers did not have those restrictions did they .

Now I wonder how your relatives would have fared if they had been given the deal the Natives were given . Yes much of it is their fault but alot of stems from the fact we agreed to look after them and just now we are getting tired of it .
So we think that we can just cast them to the wolves and wish them luck. God people they are in the mess we see, because this society gave it to them no fricking matter what you think . They were always excluded and bought for their silence .

rosencrentz

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This is my take on the "White Mans" reserve system, unemployment system, social assisstance system!
Figure out what money is needed to keep the receipients 60% looked after, and get them that amount, so that the one's that really want to get out of that system, since it is only an "assisstance" , will find a way!
I don't think anyone can survive on the money allowed, but they do somehow?
Any one with insider knowledge?


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Good point JTF the bands in BC have settled their land claims long ago and enjoy wealth unlike any band here , save a few . The younger generation coming up are getting out of the past and doing good things , some are helping their brethren here on the prairies .
This is the way it is going but it is slow in Manitoba cause their is to much of the old not this not that left over on both sides .

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The "White Man's Reserve Syatem" is just Canadian Apartheid imo.

grumpy old man

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Pavolo wrote:Being wards of the system the colonial past put together for them , if you understand the system .
You will see the end results of it , the places that they were put were not exactly the best areas . Nor was something called the Indian Act that ruled their lives for how many years . Gee the colonial settlers did not have those restrictions did they .

Now I wonder how your relatives would have fared if they had been given the deal the Natives were given . Yes much of it is their fault but alot of stems from the fact we agreed to look after them and just now we are getting tired of it .
So we think that we can just cast them to the wolves and wish them luck. God people they are in the mess we see, because this society gave it to them no fricking matter what you think . They were always excluded and bought for their silence .

Granted life was made very difficult for aboriginals 150 years ago. Even 75 years ago. And for the sake of discussion we will ignore who should take responsibility for that.

But it is 2010. No one is forced to stay on a reserve. Once off the reserve no one is forced to live in mind-numbing squalor generation after generation.

At some point all people must take some responsibility for their lives.


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Yes, I really am that Grumpy...

It's their, they're and there; in Canada it's colour, cheque, rumour and zed...

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JTF Bravo To bad more do not see this and work to correct it .

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Yes they are not forced , the way off is much harder then jump on the bus and boom your are gone . The fact remains stereotypes some deserved and some not, haunt you from the day you get on the bus.

grumpy old man

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Pavolo wrote:Now I wonder how your relatives would have fared if they had been given the deal the Natives were given.
But most settlers had incredibly difficult and challenging lives settling this land. Don't lose sight of the fact those settlers broke the land. Planted crops. Raised cattle and sheep and chicken. I can assure you very very few settlers landed on these shores and simply moved into a house, took and job and contributed.

Now look at today's immigrants. Most work very hard at menial low paying jobs to make a life for themselves and their children. And they mostly succeed. Look at the lifestyle second, third, fourth generation immigrants enjoy.

Nobody gave them anything more than natives today get.


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Yes, I really am that Grumpy...

It's their, they're and there; in Canada it's colour, cheque, rumour and zed...

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Granted life was made very difficult for aboriginals 150 years ago. Even 75 years ago. And for the sake of discussion we will ignore who should take responsibility for that.

Why the rules did not exist before some body arrived .

Freeman

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I think JTF's post refers to something quite different than what is going on here. In BC, the land is undeveloped, they're not asking for downtown Vancouver. And remember, its takes two to have a conversation.

grumpy old man

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Pavolo wrote:Too bad more do not see this and work to correct it.
Too bad EVERYONE does not work to correct it. And by that I mean the natives themselves as well as the "white man".


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Yes, I really am that Grumpy...

It's their, they're and there; in Canada it's colour, cheque, rumour and zed...

grumpy old man

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Pavolo wrote:Why the rules did not exist before some body arrived .

I'm sorry, I don't follow.


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Yes, I really am that Grumpy...

It's their, they're and there; in Canada it's colour, cheque, rumour and zed...

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It all comes back to The Indian Industry. A lot of natives don't want change as they will be vulnerable to huge decreases in their incomes....and those are the ones with power.

Freeman

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JTF wrote:It all comes back to The Indian Industry. A lot of natives don't want change as they will be vulnerable to huge decreases in their incomes....and those are the ones with power.

So, lets not negotiate whats good for everyone, just me!! Sounds like new leadership is needed.

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But most settlers had incredibly difficult and challenging lives settling this land. Don't lose sight of the fact those settlers broke the land. Planted crops. Raised cattle and sheep and chicken. I can assure you very very few settlers landed on these shores and simply moved into a house, took and job and contributed

They got to own land and they were not forced to move into the remotest land from town, settelers were given free land just to come . Problem was it really was someone else's land that was taken in a very wrong way . Grumpy open your eyes and see that what was done was Canada's own apartheid .
The natives never were given equal chance . And now we cry that they have gotten too expensive to keep their silence so we will cast them off .

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JTF wrote:It all comes back to The Indian Industry. A lot of natives don't want change as they will be vulnerable to huge decreases in their incomes....and those are the ones with power.

Sad to say the Terry Nelsons of the world , but they are getting less and less.

Miz point

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Pavolo wrote:
Miz point wrote:
grumpy old man wrote:Why indeed? Until such time as they can find a way to leave the reserve and become productive citizens then they ought to be busting their butts day-in and day-out making the reserve a better place.

Like something so simple as getting rid of the wrecked vehicles and appliances? Keeping the water system clean and sewage-free?

One compare and contrast I used to see a lot when driving number six back and forth from the north is the community of Grand Rapids. Cross the bridge headed south from the town proper and you hit the rez.....the difference was pretty obvious in terms of how the houses looked never mind the junkers laying around but just the appearance of the homes themselves.

Now why is that?

Being wards of the system the colonial past put together for them , if you understand the system .
You will see the end results of it , the places that they were put were not exactly the best areas . Nor was something called the Indian Act that ruled their lives for how many years . Gee the colonial settlers did not have those restrictions did they .

Now I wonder how your relatives would have fared if they had been given the deal the Natives were given . Yes much of it is their fault but alot of stems from the fact we agreed to look after them and just now we are getting tired of it .
So we think that we can just cast them to the wolves and wish them luck. God people they are in the mess we see, because this society gave it to them no fricking matter what you think . They were always excluded and bought for their silence .

Have I disagreed with you regarding some of the above stances of yours? NO. Many times on this forum and many others I have come out AGAINST the Indian Act, INAC and all the other levels of bureaucracy that are not working for ANYBODY.

As to my family - what does that have to do with First Nations folks, governance and accountability?


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