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why is it that the cops are the ones that had to do this?

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Miz point


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Pavolo wrote:Mizz Yes you are right about the reluctance to change what makes it worse is the few Chiefs who won't change . But they and not there people have had pretty good .

Quite a number of times Pav I HAVE BEEN RIGHT and YOU HAVE AGREED with me......so stop trying to paint me with the redneck brush because doing so adds no credibility to any of your statements nor do you "win" any arguments. And btw, I am still having a helluva time understanding half of what you write.

Please make the effort to be a bit more clear?

Who said your link was irrelevant? I cannot find a statement from anyone saying that. When I went to said link I could not even scroll down the entire page as it seems to be not working properly.

http://www.granhotelflores.blogspot.com

Miz point

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Pavolo wrote:No they were put there.
And grumpy it is only in the last 15 yrs or so they were given the casinos . And they could buy machinery now but because they do not pay tax I believe they can still not sell wheat on the open market . The other farmers said it was unfair . I may be wrong but I believe that still is the case.

Well then back it up because if this is the case then that is an unfair situation from many perspectives and one that could foment some heated debate with regards to fair practices and open markets.

Maybe the southern First Nations could start their own flour mills, market their own flour to their own peoples and make their own breads and other bakery products.....see, something positive and something that would not necessarily interfere with the rest of market....competition being a key part of the capitalist ideology correct?


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The fishers have to sell to the Freshwater Marketing Board I believe, unless you go to them directly.

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Very much so around here , problem is the goverment can not just pull the plug it is up to the bands who they elect as chief . And that is where it starts . It posted in another thread and it is not hard to find .
http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/I-5/ not sure of which version the changes to farm machinary came in believe it happened in the 60,s . To understand the entire act is alot of reading trust me .

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Maybe the southern First Nations could start their own flour mills, market their own flour to their own peoples and make their own breads and other bakery products.....see, something positive and something that would not necessarily interfere with the rest of market....competition being a key part of the capitalist ideology correct?

And what bank would give them the money for this unless they can turn a profit .

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Yup. You're right....it's an impossible situation.

The government needs the chiefs to change things and they don't really want to give up power or change things because of their present situations.

I know a guy that was security for Phil Fontaine. He made $150,000 a year and worked a couple of days a week. He job-shared.

Again. Nice work if you can get it.

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btw....that was tax-free.

Miz point

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There is a First Nations credit union Pav. There are programs available or barring that the Anishnabe could get together and form a consortium and table a business plan!!!! Christ almighty!!! THIS IS THE FRIGGIN PROBLEM - no one wants to take the initiative but rather have someone else do it or FIND SOMEONE TO BLAME for them not doing it themselves!

Now we are back to the beginning of this topic so it seems and I am still sad to have to articulate these issues over and over again for you Pav.


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grumpy old man

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Pavolo wrote:And what bank would give them the money for this unless they can turn a profit .
There was a story a while back about this hugely successful native lending agency. If I recall correctly we discussed it in this very forum. No?

Anywho, who lends the bands money for things like casinos and gas bars and urban reserves?

Oh, and they better turn a profit. That's how this works. They create a business. Hire aboriginals to work in the business. Which creates a revenue stream that is used within the reserve to build better housing and schools and fire halls and start other businesses...

Then they hire more people to work those businesses who then also spend their earnings in the reserve. See how this builds on itself.


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Yes, I really am that Grumpy...

It's their, they're and there; in Canada it's colour, cheque, rumour and zed...

Miz point

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Pavolo wrote:Very much so around here , problem is the goverment can not just pull the plug it is up to the bands who they elect as chief . And that is where it starts . It posted in another thread and it is not hard to find .
http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/I-5/ not sure of which version the changes to farm machinary came in believe it happened in the 60,s . To understand the entire act is alot of reading trust me .

Is what happened in the 60's regarding farming still happening now in terms of denying equal market access? I highly doubt it but since you seem to be quite familiar, from a professional perspective, please enlighten us with present-day details that are relevant to the now?


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Pavolo wrote:
And what bank would give them the money for this unless they can turn a profit .

Are banks really in the business so the borrower can make a profit?
I thought they were in business so the bank can make the profit.
(Just like any other business out there.)

Outsider

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JTF wrote:
Outsider wrote:
JTF wrote:
They got to own land and they were not forced to move into the remotest land from town

Mind you, Hydro has paid some folks millions and millions for the use of that remote land.

However, too many white lawyers made millions 'negotiating' those agreements (which is a freakin joke in itself).

So why didn't they use native lawyers?

Because he was tied up with an Inquiry I believe. LOL

I wonder how many native teachers, doctors, nurses, carpenters, etc. etc. there are?
After isn't a reserve just a small town.
And these reserves can certainly use the jobs.

rosencrentz

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The Zionists that tried to settle up North aroung Petersfield I believe, and failed were the problem! 1905-1912 , failed miserably because they had to cut wood and haul it to the local town, and in the summer all that would grow was mosquitoes.


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Freeman

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grumpy old man wrote:Anywho, who lends the bands money for things like casinos and gas bars and urban reserves?

Good question, anyone got any answers?

grumpy old man

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Rhetorical Q freeman... That would be you and me when we make our regular investment in Canada from our hard earned paycheques.


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Yes, I really am that Grumpy...

It's their, they're and there; in Canada it's colour, cheque, rumour and zed...

Freeman

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OK, so instead of building a casino or gas bar, why not something that is a little more labour intensive and create more jobs?

grumpy old man

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Like a sawmill? Or a furniture manufacturer. Or a metal shop? Or an electrical contractor? Plumber? HVAC contractor? Mechanic? Something that creates sustainable work and trains folks with transferable skills that will earn big bucks in urban centres?

Don't be silly. A blackjack dealer and gas jockey is easy to train, pay's minimum wage, and is easy to replace.


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Yes, I really am that Grumpy...

It's their, they're and there; in Canada it's colour, cheque, rumour and zed...

Miz point

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Goes to sustainability of a community.....keeping it up and such.


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Jondo

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Freeman wrote:
grumpy old man wrote:Anywho, who lends the bands money for things like casinos and gas bars and urban reserves?

Good question, anyone got any answers?
A private casino industry consortium form the USA. I believe it's a 50/50% deal with the band having an operational contract.

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Jondo wrote:
Freeman wrote:
grumpy old man wrote:Anywho, who lends the bands money for things like casinos and gas bars and urban reserves?

Good question, anyone got any answers?
A private casino industry consortium form the USA. I believe it's a 50/50% deal with the band having an operational contract.

http://www.hemgroup.com/index.html

They provided capital and are being repaid for it they also provide Management Expertise, do not believe the goverment gave up their cut to them

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If some would just put out the effort

Copied from the pages32. (1) A transaction of any kind whereby a band or a member thereof purports to sell, barter, exchange, give or otherwise dispose of cattle or other animals, grain or hay, whether wild or cultivated, or root crops or plants or their products from a reserve in Manitoba, Saskatchewan or Alberta, to a person other than a member of that band, is void unless the superintendent approves the transaction in writing.



Exemption

(2) The Minister may at any time by order exempt a band and the members thereof or any member thereof from the operation of this section, and may revoke any such order.

R.S., c. I-6, s. 32.

Offence33. Every person who enters into a transaction that is void under subsection 32(1) is guilty of an offence.

There is the backing Mizz do not talk down to me as I do not to you .

grumpy old man

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Here are the operative words eh...
unless the superintendent approves the transaction in writing.
Any idea if "the superintendent" has denied any opportunity in the last decade or two? Who is this "superintendent"? Is that now INAC? Has INAC denied any aboriginal permission to cultivate their lands and sell the resultant crops?

As for this effort you are requesting, I believe the onus is on you to prove your point no?

If you tell me the sky is green, it is up to you to convince me you are not blowing smoke out your a$$.


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Yes, I really am that Grumpy...

It's their, they're and there; in Canada it's colour, cheque, rumour and zed...

Miz point

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Thank you GOM I could not have said it any better. Pav it is you who is being incredibly presumptuous and reading malice into my words where none exists. If you already know the subsections of a particular act then friggin share it as I do not have the time nor the inclination to spend hours weeding through poorly worded documents.

And yes, who is this Superintendent who wields an economic Damocles sword over the children of the earth? C'mon, do you really think those sections of the act would be enforced in present times? If ever? You are so gonna have to do better than what you have done so far.

No one is talking down to you. This process is called "okay if you know something tangible then by all means bloody well share it".

Meegwetch.


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Take the fricking time to read it you might learn quit a bit Grumpy . And yes they have been denied as was said earlier farmers consider them unfair competition . The superintendent is who the minister appoints , to bad you do not have the time to read poorly written goverment documents Mizz.
Why is it when you two lose you do not have the common courtesy to admit it , and show some class. But no back to the writing thing

Miz point

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No one has "lost" anything here. All some of us are trying to do is get some straight friggin answers to scenarios/questions that we posited. I was the one who raised issues of "unfair" practices and the potential hornet's nest that in itself could be with regards to the open market.

If there is something you already know then what the F**k is your problem sharing that information instead of forcing folks to run around in circles? Or have you been a snivel servant for too long to remember that the fastest way between two points is a straight friggin line?

I think it is you who is putting others down here......whatever.


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Miz point

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So the question remains essentially, unanswered. Why could members of the community of Shamattawa not get together and make a rink as simple as the one the RCMP made? I am sure there are no provisions within the framework of any treaty or Indian Act that would stop folks from providing something for their children? Or is there?


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