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NDP loaning David Asper 75M or 90M - Good or Bad idea?

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NDP loaning David Asper 75M Good or Bad idea?

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grumpy old man


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How be you show me where it is impossible?

Nobody knows all the underlying economics of this deal such as:
What the revenues will be from his mall/development.
What the Bomber/stadium revenues will be.

I'm not saying it is possible nor am I saying it is impossible. But I will challenge someone when they say "there is no way at all for Asper to make $90 million and put it all
towards this stadium."

Deank

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the bombers are not worth $90 million. The possibility that a lender exists that is willing to lend someone $90 million to buy them is very very remote.


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grumpy old man

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What? Who said the Bombers were worth $90 million?


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Yes, I really am that Grumpy...

It's their, they're and there; in Canada it's colour, cheque, rumour and zed...

USApegger

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From what I understand, the new stadium will never be owned by anyone other than the province. So if Asper pays the $90 million back, he then gets control of the Bombers, but still will not own the stadium.

Deank

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grumpy old man wrote:What? Who said the Bombers were worth $90 million?

that is the cost for Asper to buy the bombers and repay the loan.


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Why do we call them fingers if no one has ever seen them fing?

grumpy old man

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No, the price of the stadium was $135 million. Build the stadium and he gets the Bombers. Originally Asper was going to invest $100~ million of his own loot with the feds and province kicking in the rest.

Now the Province is proposing a "bridge" loan of $90 million to be repaid by 2016. Once paid up he will own BOTH the stadium and the Bombers. The deal included a clause in the contract that should Asper wish to get out of the football/stadium business it would revert to community ownership. I suspect there was a buy-back clause agreed to up front.

NOBODY was proposing ownership only of the Bombers. Certainly not at a $90 million price tag.


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Yes, I really am that Grumpy...

It's their, they're and there; in Canada it's colour, cheque, rumour and zed...

Deank

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fine for the stadium and the bombers.

That worth 90 million yet?


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Why do we call them fingers if no one has ever seen them fing?

JT Estoban

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Not while losing 1.2 Mill in a single season it ain't!

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/manitoba/story/2010/04/07/mb-blue-bombers-red-ink-winnipeg.html

"In releasing its annual report Wednesday, the community-owned CFL club
announced it had paid out $981,950 in severance costs, including a
reported $160,000 to Kelly, who was fired following his rookie year at
the helm."

Ouch....and yet, Nice! (for Kelly)


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GGF

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GOM you wrote:

Now the Province is proposing a "bridge" loan of $90 million to be repaid by 2016.

Now I have to raise this question...What are the possibilities that someone who cannot raise $90 million today will somehow be able to raise $90 million in five years?...

Especially an investor that hasn't put a single nickle of their own money in the project...

And furthermore traditionally when a government is involved...Investors are not going to line up to bail Asper out...and if they do...It will be 10 cents on the dollar...

Then GOM you wrote:

Once paid up he will own BOTH the stadium and the Bombers.

Once again how can anyone realistically expect Asper to repay this loan?...

Then GOM you wrote:

The deal included a clause in the contract that should Asper wish to get out of the football/stadium business it would revert to community ownership. I suspect there was a buy-back clause agreed to up front.

I haven't seen any of that yet...

grumpy old man

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GGF wrote:I haven't seen any of that yet...
I have.


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Yes, I really am that Grumpy...

It's their, they're and there; in Canada it's colour, cheque, rumour and zed...

grumpy old man

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Deank wrote:fine for the stadium and the bombers.

That worth 90 million yet?
Not to me... But then again a $250,000 Lamborghini is not worth $250,000 to me. Or a $1,000,000 Picasso.


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Yes, I really am that Grumpy...

It's their, they're and there; in Canada it's colour, cheque, rumour and zed...

GGF

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So how much is the buy back clause worth to have the community buy back the Bombers etc GOM?

grumpy old man

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GGF wrote:So how much is the buy back clause worth to have the community buy back the Bombers etc GOM?
And you think I know because??????? Spekulayshun and exaggeration is a mugs game. Something you like to engage in.


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Yes, I really am that Grumpy...

It's their, they're and there; in Canada it's colour, cheque, rumour and zed...

GGF

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GOM you wrote:

The deal included a clause in the contract that should Asper wish to get out of the football/stadium business it would revert to community ownership. I suspect there was a buy-back clause agreed to up front.
I wrote:
I haven't seen any of that yet...

And then you wrote GOM:

I have.

Then I wrote:

So how much is the buy back clause worth to have the community buy back the Bombers etc GOM?

And now GOM you wrote:

And you think I know because??????? Spekulayshun and exaggeration is a mugs game. Something you like to engage in.

I was just asking and hoping you might have seen something I or others didn't or haven't seen yet my good friend...

FlyingRat

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Oh, c'mon GOM!

In post 84 you said "I have"...

What did you see?


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Rule #76: No excuses. Play like a champion!

grumpy old man

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It's been in the papers for months. Months! Ad nauseam.

Come on? Surely with a little Google time you guys can find some facts.


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Yes, I really am that Grumpy...

It's their, they're and there; in Canada it's colour, cheque, rumour and zed...

Guest

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Guest
Ahhh even our Premier is short on facts on this deal....or haven't you guys been reading the paper?

It appears Premier Greg Selinger is having a hard time understanding the very deal he signed last week with businessman David Asper and the Winnipeg Blue Bombers to build a new football stadium.

When grilled by reporters on the deal Tuesday at the legislature, a befuddled Selinger insisted Asper would have to decide whether he wants to buy the Bombers for $90 million before he builds his proposed, high-end retail complex in Polo Park.

Wrong.

“When he gets access to develop that shopping centre and finances it, he has to make a choice whether he wants to own the team and finance it at that stage of the game,” said Selinger.

“He will get access to the land when he buys it, but when he decides to go ahead with the shopping mall and build it, he has to make the decision of whether he wants to elect to pay out the mortgage and take ownership of the Bombers.”

No, he doesn’t. The memorandum of understanding says Asper plans to open the first phase of his retail complex in 2013 and that he has until March 1, 2016, to decide whether he wants to buy the Bombers.

It’s an important point because what this deal is really about is Asper getting exclusive access to the Polo Park land where the current stadium now sits. Under the deal, Asper can buy the land from the city at an artificially low price, build a retail complex on that site and never pay a cent on the $90-million taxpayer “loan.” When reminded of the 2016 date, Selinger corrected himself, sort of.

“That’s right, he gets that five years to do it,” he said. “He gets the decision within five years, he has to elect that option to take ownership of the team, that’s the deal.”

But when asked for clarification, Selinger muddled his answer even further.

“They get the opportunity to develop the land (at Polo Park) but when they make their final financial arrangements on developing the land, they have to finalize within five years their decision to pay out the mortgage,” he said.

No, that’s not right, either. Regardless of when Asper builds (or doesn’t build) or when he “finalizes” his retail complex, there is a hard date — March 1, 2016 — where he must decide whether he wants to buy the Bombers for $90 million.

It has nothing to do with when he builds or doesn’t build his shopping complex.

In other words, Asper can build his retail complex at Polo Park on cheap land without any intention of buying the Bombers.

When pressed further on the issue, Selinger then said he wasn’t sure whether Asper was allowed to build his retail complex before committing to buying the Bombers.

“I’d have to check the detail on the specifics of that,” said Selinger.

Pardon?

Either the premier doesn’t understand the deal his own government just signed, or he’s being deliberately evasive because he knows this deal makes no business sense whatsoever.

Why would Asper buy a CFL football team for $90 million plus interest?

The Bombers are not worth $10 million. The story behind the story is the Selinger government desperately wants to build a new stadium to show voters government is moving Winnipeg forward. But Selinger doesn’t want to get into the thorny public debate about taxpayers buying a new stadium for a professional sports team.

He knows that wouldn’t fly politically.

So someone concocted this elaborate scheme where taxpayers — whether it’s through property taxes, provincial government grants or both — will foot the stadium bill while making it appear there’s a private investor involved.

Neat trick.

GGF

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I have... Good Post! JTF

tigersback

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bad idea.

However, if they are going to build the stadium, they may as well do it right. I do not think $115 million will be enough to build a state of the art sporting complex.

http://thesandbox.canadian-forum.com/

GGF

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tigersback you wrote:

bad idea.

However, if they are going to build the stadium, they may as well do it right. I do not think $115 million will be enough to build a state of the art sporting complex.

HI tiger and welcome to the box...

Exactly and the other thing that really bothers me is that as a result of the parties involved (Asper & government(s)) and the particular party (Asper family) who have demonstrated that they are not shy or have any issues with being at the public trough...such as with the Cdn Human Rights Museum etc...

And also as has been demonstrated time and time again...and specifically with "Cost Overruns" on projects like this proposed stadium and or the CHRM and or projects that are partnered with government(s) and or have government(s) involvement etc...

$115 million is just a starting point as far as I am concern...

And who knows at the end of the day what this stadium will truly cost to build at this point in time...

And one way or the other...This is a terrible deal, if not one of the worst deals I have seen a government come up with yet...

And the current deal should be "Stopped and Scrapped All Together"...and then maybe then someone can come up with a deal that makes a bit more sense then the one in front of us right at the moment...

And then this new deal have some kind of protection for the taxpayer which the current deal does not have one way or the other...

And or some real outside investor money which this current deal also does not have...

And also a new deal is needed because such as was posted previously and also in the papers...

This current deal is just a "neat trick" and "nothing else"...

Deank

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grumpy old man wrote:No, the price of the stadium was $135 million. Build the stadium and he gets the Bombers. Originally Asper was going to invest $100~ million of his own loot with the feds and province kicking in the rest.

Now the Province is proposing a "bridge" loan of $90 million to be repaid by 2016. Once paid up he will own BOTH the stadium and the Bombers. The deal included a clause in the contract that should Asper wish to get out of the football/stadium business it would revert to community ownership. I suspect there was a buy-back clause agreed to up front.

NOBODY was proposing ownership only of the Bombers. Certainly not at a $90 million price tag.

true.. false... dont know.. I assume true, simply because even out leader does not know the real facts

http://www.winnipegsun.com/news/columnists/tom_brodbeck/2010/04/08/13519771.html

Asper will not own any part of the stadium, even if he was fool
enough to exercise his option of buying the Winnipeg Blue Bombers for
$90 million.

At best, if he bought the money-losing CFL team, he might sign an
operating agreement with the owners of the stadium in order to run some
aspect of it.


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