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East side of Lake Winnipeg

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26 Re: East side of Lake Winnipeg on Mon Nov 30, 2009 9:01 pm

Deank


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ahh no..

the abs said.. well duh you need to consult with us since it will go over some of our land and more specifically we are a ready labour pool so it would make sense to use us.

Hydro. said.. your RIGHT!... and held meetings with many of them... positive meetings. they almost had everything worked out and then doer said.... dont do'er

27 Re: East side of Lake Winnipeg on Thu Dec 03, 2009 6:15 pm

Guest

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To bad the Natives do not see the benifets for them , if the east is chosen .

28 Re: East side of Lake Winnipeg on Thu Dec 03, 2009 7:10 pm

cherenkov

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Many of them do see the benefits and support the east side route. There are also some that don't, or think they can gain greater benefit by working against the government than with it. Hollow Water First Nations, for example ... you can bet they would be a huge pain in the a** to deal with, as they are on record as opposing the hydro route and have been known to raise blockades and become combative. I think that's the primary reason why the NDP is directing it down the west side ... just to avoid having to deal with Bushie & friends.

http://anybody-want-a-peanut.blogspot.com/

29 Re: East side of Lake Winnipeg on Thu Dec 03, 2009 9:52 pm

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Then we should let them pay their own winter road system , after all it is another unnecessary cost we bear .

30 Re: East side of Lake Winnipeg on Fri Dec 04, 2009 9:32 am

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cherenkov wrote:Many of them do see the benefits and support the east side route. There are also some that don't, or think they can gain greater benefit by working against the government than with it. Hollow Water First Nations, for example ... you can bet they would be a huge pain in the a** to deal with, as they are on record as opposing the hydro route and have been known to raise blockades and become combative. I think that's the primary reason why the NDP is directing it down the west side ... just to avoid having to deal with Bushie & friends.

To reduce the threats from the natives, and for very sound engineering practices, the best route imho, is right down the middle of the lake.

However, this was never to be a decision based on best practices, but on politics....we lose going in with this method I reckon.

31 Re: East side of Lake Winnipeg on Fri Dec 04, 2009 9:40 am

Deank

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Lets be very clear here people. The Actual amount of land that the First Nations "own" on the East side can EASILY be worked around at very little cost.
see those TINY little red marks... thats the reserves. See all those NON RED spots that make up everything else? Thats land they have no say over.
http://manitobawildlands.org/maps/ESPI_NatRegsmap_lg.jpg


Here from the same place is the all weather road
http://manitobawildlands.org/maps/EsideP_E_roads_map.jpg


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32 Re: East side of Lake Winnipeg on Fri Dec 04, 2009 9:48 am

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A____________________________________B

...the shortest route is......

33 Re: East side of Lake Winnipeg on Fri Dec 04, 2009 11:05 am

cherenkov

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Deank wrote:Lets be very clear here people. The Actual amount of land that the First Nations "own" on the East side can EASILY be worked around at very little cost.
Yes ... but their "traditional lands" encompass the entire half of the province from Pine Falls to Churchill.Try working around that. Maybe that wouldn't stand up in a court of law, but as we know the law doesn't always apply to First Nations People.

http://anybody-want-a-peanut.blogspot.com/

34 Re: East side of Lake Winnipeg on Fri Dec 04, 2009 11:40 am

Deank

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"Yes ... but their "traditional lands" encompass the entire half of the province from Pine Falls to Churchill"

I call a HUGE amount of bullshit on that. There is no way they went more then 1 or two miles from the main lakes and rivers. There was no reason for them to.


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35 Re: East side of Lake Winnipeg on Fri Dec 04, 2009 1:16 pm

cherenkov

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Maybe I exaggerate slightly, but who knows what they consider to be traditional lands, and how do you argue it when there is little evidence either way. The issue is a rat's nest. Actually I'm with JTF ... I think down the middle of the lake is the way to go. Expensive initially yes, but much less trouble in many ways, and very direct (less power loss).

http://anybody-want-a-peanut.blogspot.com/

36 Re: East side of Lake Winnipeg on Fri Dec 04, 2009 1:31 pm

Deank

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no no ... you are not exagerating. That is EXACTLY what they claim. I am calling bullshit on them.. not you Smile


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37 Re: East side of Lake Winnipeg on Mon Dec 14, 2009 2:34 pm

FlyingRat

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Wouldn't the full migration range of where the deer and caribou roam be considered their traditional lands, as this was their food supply?


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38 Re: East side of Lake Winnipeg on Mon Dec 14, 2009 2:51 pm

Deank

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not really no
the food and bounty was so plentiful that they never really travelled that far from what they knew and where they basically lived to get what they wanted. Add on to that the fact that the ONLY method of winter travel they had was by foot/snowshoe. They were not going far or that fast.
Summer time brought some significant travel by canoe, but again, you never went that far from the lakes and rivers as there was simply no reason to.


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39 Re: East side of Lake Winnipeg on Mon Dec 14, 2009 3:55 pm

umcrouc0

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Deank wrote:no no ... you are not exagerating. That is EXACTLY what they claim. I am calling bullshit on them.. not you

Isn't that the whole issue with there being legal battles by going down that route? If there is any land claim that may potentially be infringed upon the whole thing could get tied up in courts for years. It doesn't matter what you or I think they should have claim over. If there is any outstanding land claim on any of the land, it's a mess to deal with. That's the problem, not if there should or shouldn't be any entitlement to the land. Saying that there should only be a few small areas that need to be dealt with doesn't stop it from getting tied up in the court system for years. Hydro's learned that from previous projects and doesn't think it's worth the risk in this case. I agree with them.

40 Re: East side of Lake Winnipeg on Mon Dec 14, 2009 3:58 pm

Electrician

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umcrouc0 wrote:
Deank wrote:no no ... you are not exagerating. That is EXACTLY what they claim. I am calling bullshit on them.. not you

Isn't that the whole issue with there being legal battles by going down that route? If there is any land claim that may potentially be infringed upon the whole thing could get tied up in courts for years. It doesn't matter what you or I think they should have claim over. If there is any outstanding land claim on any of the land, it's a mess to deal with. That's the problem, not if there should or shouldn't be any entitlement to the land. Saying that there should only be a few small areas that need to be dealt with doesn't stop it from getting tied up in the court system for years. Hydro's learned that from previous projects and doesn't think it's worth the risk in this case. I agree with them.


Replying to both of the last posts, stick a few MLC's along the route, then you'll see them out there working their brains out. AND, things haven't changed much nowadays, they still don't go far, for their supply of booze...
(Just generalizing, no offence...).


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