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Provincial police commission still "coming soon"

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Deank

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contributor eminence
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Its been a long time since the province said it was forcing this on the police forces in the province. So long that I am really starting to question their commitment. We (winnipeg) shut ours down (as ineffective as it was) because we expected the provincial one to follow shortly.

Anyway... does this little tidbit scare/piss you off?

"Civilian police boards will also have the authority to hire and fire police chiefs"

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/local/police-commission-in-the-works-swan-says-104260779.html


Well excuuuuuuse ME!. Currently our ELECTED OFFICIALS have that right. So basically we are taking the authority away from our elected officials and passing it to some appointed board of which we have no control?

If anything should happen the police chief should become and elected position not appointed by some board. This smacks of heavy heavy heavy political interference and a backdoor way for the NDP to seize power from the properly elected civic leaders.


_________________
Why do we call them fingers if no one has ever seen them fing?

grumpy old man

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Agreed. The board should make recommendations, but that's it.


_________________
Yes, I really am that Grumpy...

It's their, they're and there; in Canada it's colour, cheque, rumour and zed...

AGEsAces

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ummm...

What would be the point of a Provincial commission?

There's only about 3 or 4 cities in Manitoba that even have their own police force.

The rest are covered by RCMP which is a FEDERAL organization, and therefore outside Provincial jurisdiction.

http://www.photage.ca

Deank

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the article says 11.


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Why do we call them fingers if no one has ever seen them fing?

AGEsAces

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From what I've been told...they are as follows:

Brandon
Winnipeg
Steinbach (sort of)

Everyone else is covered by RCMP or bylaw officers.
Even reserves are covered by RCMP, though they have band officers for day-to-day activities...but it's still a federal designation monitored by RCMP.

http://www.photage.ca

Deank

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there is/was East St Paul. Plus a smattering of smaller ones


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Why do we call them fingers if no one has ever seen them fing?

AGEsAces

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yes...was E. St. Paul, which is now RCMP.

http://www.photage.ca

AGEsAces

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Apparently Steinbach dropped theirs.
Here's what's left:

Municiple Police Departments
Altona Police Service
111 Centre Avenue East
Altona, MB
Phone: 204 324-5373

Brandon Police Service
1340-10th Street, Brandon, MB, R7A 6Z3
Phone: 204 729-2345

Morden Police Service
Morden Civic Centre, 106-195 Stephen St.
Morden, MB, R6M 1V3
Phone: 204 822-6292

Rivers Police Department
670 2nd Ave
Rivers MB

Winnipeg Police Service
P.O. Box 1680, Winnipeg, MB, R3C 2Z7
Phone: 204 986-6246

Winkler Police Service
185 Main Street
Winkler, MB Canada R6W 1B4
Phone: (204) 325-0829

http://www.photage.ca

AGEsAces

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moderator
moderator
Here's what the RCMP covers (in some cases they work with a local)

Detachment
Altona
Amaranth
Arborg
Ashern
Beausejour
Boissevain
Brandon
Carberry
Carman
Chemawawin
Churchill
Cranberry Portage
Cross Lake
Crystal City
Dauphin
Deloraine
East St. Paul
Elphinstone
Emerson
Ethelbert
Falcon Beach
Fisher Branch
Flin Flon
Gillam
Gimli
Gladstone
God's Lake Narrows
Grand Marais
Grand Rapids
Grandview
Gypsumville
Hamiota
Headingley
Island Lake
Killarney
Lac du Bonnet
Leaf Rapids
Little Grand Rapids
Lundar
Lynn Lake
Manitou
McCreary
Melita
Minnedosa
Moose Lake
Morden
Morris
Neepawa
Nisichawayasihk
Norway House
Oakbank
Oxford House
Portage La Prairie
Powerview
Pukatawagan
Reston
Roblin
Rossburn
Russell
Selkirk
Shamattawa
Shoal Lake
Snow Lake
Souris
Sprague
St-Pierre-Jolys
Ste-Rose-du-Lac
Steinbach
Stonewall
Swan River
Teulon
The Pas
Thompson
Treherne
Virden
Wabowden
Wasagaming
Waywayseecappo
Winnipegosis



Last edited by AGEsAces on Mon Oct 04, 2010 4:29 pm; edited 1 time in total

http://www.photage.ca

Deank

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contributor eminence
contributor eminence
oh for christ sake I dont have the time to argue with you about this.

RCMP provided services within Manitoba are in fact subject to Manitoba law and jurisdiction.

There are more then just the ones you listed that require having a police force set up,

Here read the actual act

http://web2.gov.mb.ca/laws/statutes/2009/c03209e.php


_________________
Why do we call them fingers if no one has ever seen them fing?

AGEsAces

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moderator
moderator
I'm not arguing that RCMP don't enforce Manitoba laws.

I'm suggesting that the article wants a Provincial Police Commission...

My comment is how are they going to apply that to the RCMP? As the RCMP members do not work for the Province, they work for the Federal Government (Treasury Board to be exact)

So my original question was why a Provincial Commission is required to cover just a 1/2 dozen cities?
Why wouldn't each city just have it's own "board" to deal with individual Police Chiefs. The local chiefs are there to enforce the local laws anyway...not necessarily those of the Province.

A prime example is WPS and the Perimeter. Parts of that road are covered by WPS, part is covered by the RCMP. The areas covered by RCMP would be of no interest to the Chief of WPS...as his forces would have little or no cause to be there.

http://www.photage.ca

Deank

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contributor eminence
contributor eminence
sigh,

didn;t bother the read eh?

the RCMP in Manitoba are accountable to Manitoba as well.


_________________
Why do we call them fingers if no one has ever seen them fing?

grumpy old man

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Just because the rcmp are a federal force does not exempt them from their responsibilities and accountability to Manitoba. Do remember the rcmp in most areas are rent-a-cops. If the rcmp declare themselves answerable to no one then we fire their sorry asses and start our own provincial police force.


_________________
Yes, I really am that Grumpy...

It's their, they're and there; in Canada it's colour, cheque, rumour and zed...

AGEsAces

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moderator
moderator
I read the article, and the discussion seemed to start with a commission being able to hire/fire police chiefs.

But the chief of police for the RCMP is a federally appointed position.

And the commander of each Division is chosen by a commission out of Ottawa.

Of course the RCMP has to answer to the Province when it comes to policing, but the a Provincial commission would have no direct effect on who is running the forces.

They may call Ottawa and say "we'd like"...but they won't have the power to hire/fire.

As it turns out...the new "chief" of the RCMP is in hot water already...because of the civilian/officer conflict.

http://www.photage.ca

grumpy old man

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administrator
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I'll bet they do have the power to hire and fire, so to speak, the local head of the detachments. If the municipality that is paying for the rcmp thinks the guy/gal is a complete dink I'd be very surprised there is no language in the contract to address that.


_________________
Yes, I really am that Grumpy...

It's their, they're and there; in Canada it's colour, cheque, rumour and zed...

AGEsAces

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moderator
moderator
The heads of each detachment within a town/city are appointed by D-Division here in Winnipeg.
They are appointed based on rank and experience.

The local councils may send in complaints which may or may not be addressed, depending on the availability of a possible replacement.

What needs to be understood, is that the RCMP is a military organization...run similar to the Canadian Forces when it comes to leaders and appointments.

http://www.photage.ca

grumpy old man

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administrator
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Military? Ummmm, who cares? Seriously AA, what does it matter? They are no different than a plumber or a security guard or a bus driver. They are employees of the municipality they are under contract to.

The rcmp serve at the pleasure of a given municipality under a contract. Does the contract include language to expel any officer serving that area?


_________________
Yes, I really am that Grumpy...

It's their, they're and there; in Canada it's colour, cheque, rumour and zed...

AGEsAces

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moderator
moderator
Ok..."technically" the RCMP serve anywhere in Canada they want.
Should it be required, they can cover Winnipeg, Toronto, or Montreal, and push the local services aside...but won't because of contracts.

That aside...they serve in a community at the request of the community (and money paid). But part of that contract is that the community accepts the RCMP and the issues that come with them.

In general, the community gets what they get, but if they have a specific issue, they can file a grievance wit D-Division who will review the item and take action.

RCMP officers are required to serve a certain time in various positions, including remote, rural, office, etc. It's all part of their promotion process (same as the military).

The individual officers are NOT servants to the individual communities. The RCMP at large is under contract with the community, and will send whoever is required to get the job done.

In most of the small communities, to handle the "little" things, they have bylaw officers who work directly for the community, and if it's something they can't handle, they call the RCMP in.

Your analogy actually would prove my point. A community does not hire a bus driver, they hire a bus service. The bus service manages the drivers. If they community has a problem with a driver, they can complain to the service. Odds are, if possible, the service would just move the driver to a new route/location, but out of the area of the complaint.

Please don't mistake my being an American as being naive...I deal with some of these issues almost everyday.

http://www.photage.ca

Deank

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contributor eminence
contributor eminence
still didn't read the new police act eh?


_________________
Why do we call them fingers if no one has ever seen them fing?

AGEsAces

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moderator
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You mean this part here...where it says what I've been saying?

Except that it's not the local municipalities that actually do the hiring...it's the PROVINCE at the request of the local to provide police service, and a request still has to be made to the RCMP for coverage.

And where it states that the RCMP may be assigned jurisdiction temporarily over any local authority by the minister if he/she sees it required.

The part where it says specifically if the RCMP is involved, it is done so as a Provincial contract between the RCMP and the minister...and that individual officers or personnel are managed by the RCMP...and NOT the Province directly?

Agreement for RCMP to provide policing

18(1) The Government of Manitoba may enter into one or more agreements with the Government of Canada to have the Royal Canadian Mounted Police act as a provincial police service and provide

(a) policing services in all or any portions of Manitoba that may be designated by the minister; and

(b) additional services set out in the agreements.

Status, duties and powers of RCMP members

18(2) When providing policing services under an agreement entered into under subsection (1), members of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police

(a) have all the powers, duties, privileges and protections of a peace officer and constable at common law or under any enactment or applicable by-law;

(b) have, with respect to the areas where policing services are being provided, the duties set out in clauses 25(a) to (g) (duties of municipal police officers), subject to any necessary changes; and

(c) have authority to act throughout Manitoba in order to carry out their duties.

RCMP accountable to minister

18(3) The commanding officer of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police in Manitoba is accountable to the minister for policing services provided by the Royal Canadian Mounted Police under an agreement entered into under subsection (1).

Emergency policing

19(1) If the minister determines that an emergency situation exists in an area of Manitoba, he or she may, by written notice, direct the Royal Canadian Mounted Police to provide policing in the area for a specified period.

Provision of policing in emergencies

19(2) On receiving notice from the minister, the Royal Canadian Mounted Police must provide the requested policing services for the period directed by the minister.

Ministerial assignment of investigation

20 Despite any other provision in this Act, if the minister considers it to be in the interests of the administration of justice, he or she may assign the conduct of an investigation into an alleged offence that would normally be conducted by a police service or the independent investigation unit to members of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police or members of another police service in Manitoba or another Canadian province.

http://www.photage.ca

Jondo

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major-contributor
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Glad to see Harper put a civilian at the head of the RCMP. We certainly don't need a product of the system to be leading it further down the same raods. As I suspected - the lifers in that career have been kicking and screaming ever since. Damn good. Finally, the days of police, legal circles and other agencies self-reporting including self-oversight are nearing an end.

AGEsAces

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moderator
moderator
Jondo wrote:Glad to see Harper put a civilian at the head of the RCMP. We certainly don't need a product of the system to be leading it further down the same raods. As I suspected - the lifers in that career have been kicking and screaming ever since. Damn good. Finally, the days of police, legal circles and other agencies self-reporting including self-oversight are nearing an end.

He may not last long though.
He's already violating protocol all over the world.
Quite possible he'll be getting ousted because of it.

http://www.photage.ca

Jondo

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major-contributor
Harper recently reconfirmed/re-endorsed him - as response to wide-spread police-brass that he be fired. Nice to see. It is the culture that needs to go - not the guys that don't fit the clique.

grumpy old man

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What protocols all over the world could he be violating?


_________________
Yes, I really am that Grumpy...

It's their, they're and there; in Canada it's colour, cheque, rumour and zed...

grumpy old man

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administrator
I got a kick outta the rank-and-file bitching about this civilian. What an obnoxious complaint. Crikey, who do these idiots think they are? These are police officers. No different than bus drivers or plumbers, do what you are told and quit whinging.


_________________
Yes, I really am that Grumpy...

It's their, they're and there; in Canada it's colour, cheque, rumour and zed...

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