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POLL: Continue or scrap the Crestwin Bomber stadium project?

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Continue or scrap the Crestwin Bomber stadium project?

15% 15% [ 4 ]
65% 65% [ 17 ]
19% 19% [ 5 ]
Total Votes : 26

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A little difficult to find but some reading info for you Ed. Still looking for that excellent report to debunk the notion that Private's do the heavy lifting.

Electrician

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Interesting.
So, its actually what I was thinking about the MTS Centre since I found out about it's existance.
for the link.
Somehow, I'm not surprised...
Maybe the bait is too delicious and now the new stadium catfish want a bite at it...
Weren't you guys discussing something similar about the Canwest Park?


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Livio Ci wrote:

Personally i agree with alot of people who believe these venues should be funded by governments. On the flip side, i have a hard time seeing privates runaway with the profits.


I happen to be in agreement with a lot of people that believe that government should not fund sport franchises and arenas/stadiums.

...and one of the reasons is the issue that you quoted.

USApegger

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grumpy old man wrote:EdWin he has twice said he will look for the story. I recall what he is alluding to but not all the details. There was a significant feature published on this a couple years ago that surprised me.

That said that arena has been/is a wonderful success and is a fine example of public involvement in such facilities. I wonder, would it have been built at all without that money?

Is Winnipeg better with this facility or without?
I recall this as well, if I remember correctly, it was published in the Free Press.
As far as I am concerned, Winnipeg is far better off with the MTS Centre.

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IMO, it's had zero impact on the city.

...but, I do think it is a fine example of 'over-building' on a site and a rare example of 'cartoon architecture'. Also, it is ahead of it's time with it's unique 'traffic calming' effect as a result of its muffin-top design.

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JTF wrote:
Livio Ci wrote:

Personally i agree with alot of people who believe these venues should be funded by governments. On the flip side, i have a hard time seeing privates runaway with the profits.


I happen to be in agreement with a lot of people that believe that government should not fund sport franchises and arenas/stadiums.

...and one of the reasons is the issue that you quoted.


It's a problem JTF. Thats why i like the FracOwn possibility.

Only thing government would have to do is allow for some nice Tax incentives to flow to local investors rather than to a few cozy little chums.

With governments help the little guy on the street can own a dream for once instead of seeing his coin go to make others wealthy with insider deals.

Question is, are the lil people so insecure that the only way they can see anything built is if some "big shot" gets to use tax dollars and "jus ger er done ", I suspect this may be the case.

Funny though, the Freep Poll shows 80% want the deal changed to exclude the 'rich guy". ( 60 % want it to go back to square one )....but Sammy says GET OVER IT, and some other deal will be cut without the benefit of the Crocus ponzi machine.

Northlands

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USApegger wrote:
grumpy old man wrote:EdWin he has twice said he will look for the story. I recall what he is alluding to but not all the details. There was a significant feature published on this a couple years ago that surprised me.

That said that arena has been/is a wonderful success and is a fine example of public involvement in such facilities. I wonder, would it have been built at all without that money?

Is Winnipeg better with this facility or without?
I recall this as well, if I remember correctly, it was published in the Free Press.
As far as I am concerned, Winnipeg is far better off with the MTS Centre.

I agree. Unless there is some dirty little secret that the place is bleeding away money ( which I doubt ), MTS Centre's existence has brought on more concerts to town than I can remember ever happening in the past. A few restaurants/bars/pubs opening up around it hasn't hurt either.

I'm not one that enjoys the thought of lots of public money going to a venue that mainly privately run , but it appears that MTS is doing well.

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The point is Northlands, how can not it do well for the privates when its the taxpayer that makes the venture possible.

Any venture with this type of financing will do well. I guess its all ok as long as there is an apeearnace that more flash is added. Most of the added bars by the way, are all controlled or will be by the same group. Perhaps Leo needs to craft a better public deal to get the met finished. We know Sam's got a great deal and Asper is desperately looking for another. Question taxpayers have to address is if they want to keep doing this ( but then all details would have to be released ) or look for an alternative

USApegger

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Didn't we already have the alternative in Winnipeg? It was called Winnipeg Enterprises Corp.

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Yep WEC was a bloated pig but that isn't a reason to go the other way, where you make it happen and another set of pigs feed at the trough.

I'm not saying an alternate is a government run board to handle sports teams, rather a Publicly owned entity who has at its heart , a mandate to turn a profit for the public ownership.

I get the feeling there is apprehension in making an investment in your own City directly and becoming a developer, landowner, professional franchise owner. I think its kick ass and pretty damn cool to own something like this.

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Aren't you talking about a Crown Corporation then?

In my world, the government should not be in the sports business at all...in any busines aspect.

Livio Ci

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No JTF, the public being investros in the stadium would run the facility.

No government assistance required except that they make it easy for citizens to invest and participate.

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That sounds like you're suggesting the team go with a public offering to take it private.

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JTF wrote:That sounds like you're suggesting the team go with a public offering to take it private.


Well yes JTF, that would be the intention . Considering we still don't have a clue who owns the Bombers and what Community owned actually means.



YEs, the stadium ownership will own the Bombers , as it should be. They will be responsible for the team going forward and since the ownership will in fact be the residents of Winnipeg, you could say it was truly Community owned. ( and very difficult to move if some people fear that )

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It is now being portrayed as being a non-profit organization. I read it somewhere the other day....

But, I agree. We should sell the team. End of all these fu cking stories.

JT Estoban

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So....this in the paper today: "Creswin not at stadium meeting; sources say new plan in works"

And this juicy little nugget: "Late last week, Asper said in an interview his original intention as football-club chairman a decade ago was to see the public sector build a stadium, especially since most of the use would be for amateur sport."

Read more here: http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/local/asper-conspicuously-absent-106943553.html

So...the truth finally. This was all a scheme by Asper (Ask-er to some) to get the public to build a new stadium, and publicly gift the team to him (for some reason...maybe because he's a huge football fan, maybe because he feels he's the upper class due to his bank account, and we should all be grateful for having him around or something...I don't know) AND he wanted prime real estate from the old stadium at a hometown discount at worst.

Scrap the whole damn thing....time to look for a new private partner. No more public monies please, we've been hoodwinked enough already!

The old saying: ...fool me once...

or is it: ....you can fool some of the people some of the time...

Whichever works for ya.


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Mantha

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I'm actually fine with public money being used to build large scale projects like this, but this project just seemed fishy from the start to me.

We don't NEED a new stadium immediately. Let's take our time and do it right.

http://yaciuk.blogspot.com

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osted by: bomber fan 1
November 9, 2010 at 12:19 PM

The parties are meeting ...

I sure hope Katz and Salinger know who they are meeting with

Bill Watchorn - a former CFO at Canwest
David Asper - a form executive VP at Canwest (absent)

Bill Watchorn - the former CEO and Chairman of Ensis fund
Bill has his buddies on the Bomber Bomber board that were also directors of the Ensis fund.

Bill Watchorn - the former CFO of Federal Industries
Bill has his buddies on the Bomber board that were also executives at Federal Industries.

You get the picture yet? No one in the media is covering this story.

Basically the Winnipeg Football Club has been hijacked by executives from some of the most spectacular business failures in Canadian history.

They elected each other to these positions.

In order for any team to be successful you need successful business visionaries at the top that can think strategically.

Face it folks. These are the only guys that have not changed in Bomber land for the past 10 years.

Face one more thing
These same executives from the Winnipeg Football Club were the ones that called a press conference and announced to the world that THEY had approved the Asper proposal for a new stadium. It is strangely odd that no one in the media is checking into this "inside job".

Leo Ledohowski had no chance with his stadium proposal and was never told why it was rejected. Here is one idea : the WFC is run by executives who all worked together and are good friends of David Asper






I just love this Post. I am almost wuite certain...NO one knows what Community owned really means..lol. what a joke.

Jondo

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In my recent experience - the rot gets worse the higher up the pipe you go. I'd like to see the creation of a Citizen's Inquiry process. We need a public-driven legal process to get to the bottom of many things. We should be insulted that truth and transparency usually only comes after the fact when it's too late to turn back.



Last edited by Jondo on Wed Nov 10, 2010 1:15 am; edited 1 time in total

Deank

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".NO one knows what Community owned really means"

pfft that is easy.

When the team loses big amounts of money they will come to us for a zero interest loan


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WOW!!! Broadbeck has taken the gloves off...finally...and called this what it is....


Sadly, their suspicions proved right as the entire project began to fall apart over the following year, spiralling downward into a cesspool of lies and deceit.
http://www.winnipegsun.com/news/columnists/tom_brodbeck/2010/11/09/16060351.html

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Hell, here's the entire article...it's short...


I remember when former premier Gary Doer balked at the idea of contributing $40 million of provincial money into a new CFL football stadium, calling it “too rich.”
I also remember Mayor Sam Katz saying around the same time that the city had no money to help build a professional football stadium and rejected the idea of donating the land at Polo Park to any new stadium project.
Public Safety Minister Vic Toews has always said the federal government is not in the business of funding professional football stadiums, but would contribute $20 million to an amateur-sport component of the deal.
We were told by politicians like Doer that any new stadium would have to be “private-sector led,” and taxpayers would have a limited role in building it.
Doer said he would be willing to donate back whatever taxes were generated from the construction of a new stadium, which was then estimated at $17 million, but no more.
That position eventually killed David Asper’s first plan to build a $120-million stadium at Polo Park, which required $40 million each from the province and Ottawa.
Asper’s project then moved briefly to Point Douglas, but was roundly rejected and quickly shelved.
And then came the U of M deal. Remember that original deal? Asper proudly announced he was willing to put in more than $100 million of his own money into a project that would include a “very doable,” high-end retail project at Polo Park.
His announcement was met with glee by all, including naysayers who conceded this was a deal taxpayers simply couldn’t refuse.
Some wondered aloud whether the deal was just too good to be true.
Sadly, their suspicions proved right as the entire project began to fall apart over the following year, spiralling downward into a cesspool of lies and deceit.
It turns out the whole U of M stadium proposal was just a clever ruse, designed to draw taxpayers into a project they thought would be largely private-sector funded. In reality, it will be paid for almost entirely by taxpayers.
Less than three months ago, I sat down with Asper face-to-face and he told me he was willing to contribute tens of millions of dollars of his own money into this project, even if it meant never owning the Bombers.
“I’m doing it because I’m prepared to compromise profit that we would otherwise make on a commercial development,” Asper said in August. “I know people have trouble believing it but there is some goodness still out there and I hope that people accept that there’s an altruistic motive.”
We have trouble believing it because it’s BS.
Asper now calls the whole project a “public works project” and said he’s happy to withdraw from it entirely.
Can you say “sucker?” Forgive us, David, if we no longer take you seriously.
All the while Asper and Premier Greg Selinger perpetuated the lie that the current stadium at Polo Park requires $52.5-million in upgrades to be safe and operational, when in fact their own engineering report pegs it at $14.4 million.
The $52.5-million number includes a complete overhaul of the stadium, including new luxury boxes, expanded seating, a new press box and expensive building code upgrades that would only be required if those massive refurbishments occurred.
But why let facts get in the way of good old-fashion subterfuge?
Government officials and Winnipeg Blue Bombers brass are now meeting without Asper, which means the project is officially a “public-sector led” one.
What used to be “too rich” for Doer will now be “not enough” for Selinger, who appears happy to write a blank cheque for this project.
And it will come straight out of your pocket.
For more, visit Brodbeck’s blog Raise a Little Hell at winnipegsun.com. Reach Tom by e-mail at
tom.brodbeck@sunmedia.ca.

AGEsAces

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Heard you on the radio yesterday Liv.
Well presented...though some suggestions as to the "unknowns" might have sold the story a bit better.

They were talking about it again this morning on CBC...and apparently they are going to approach the Bombers about it for a newsstory.

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Deank

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LOL

"mull over the tender results."

its called addition buddy.


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Deank

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also surprise surprise... potential for a ticket tax to pay for the stadium


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