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hutterite competition unfair? 5 5 1

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1 hutterite competition unfair? on Wed Nov 10, 2010 9:26 am

Deank


contributor eminence
contributor eminence
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/manitoba/story/2010/11/07/man-hutterite-colonies-business.html



interesting story... but what the heck does this mean?

"They pay income taxes but are not subject to health or post-secondary tax levies"


_________________
Why do we call them fingers if no one has ever seen them fing?

2 Re: hutterite competition unfair? on Wed Nov 10, 2010 9:46 am

Guest


Guest
The larger issue is the unfair advantage that the Hutterites have over regular, secular businesses.

I always thought that one had to pay a certain minimum wage for a particular job to EVERYONE.

Hmmmm.....seems some are being treated differently than other eh.

3 Re: hutterite competition unfair? on Wed Nov 10, 2010 9:59 am

Deank


contributor eminence
contributor eminence
Small business owners do not need to pay themselves a wage.


_________________
Why do we call them fingers if no one has ever seen them fing?

4 Re: hutterite competition unfair? on Wed Nov 10, 2010 10:14 am

AGEsAces


moderator
moderator
Business Owners are exempt from the WCB and other labour laws.

The news about the Hutterites, is that they aren't required to pay their workers "minimum wage", because much of the work being done in their businesses is considered "volunteer" due to religious or family commitments.

When payroll, and insurance are removed from a business equation...the costs are SIGNIFICANTLY less for doing business...so the profits are naturally increased.

http://www.photage.ca

5 Re: hutterite competition unfair? on Wed Nov 10, 2010 10:16 am

Guest


Guest
Exactly. It then becomes un-competitive and wrong.

See...there's the problem.

Since when is a Hutterite a private businessman? Since the government says so eh.

That's bull sh it. imo

6 Re: hutterite competition unfair? on Wed Nov 10, 2010 10:18 am

Jondo


major-contributor
major-contributor
The question is - who should change (their business practices) - the Hutterite's or the Gov't?

7 Re: hutterite competition unfair? on Wed Nov 10, 2010 10:32 am

Deank


contributor eminence
contributor eminence
okay fine guys.. but can we answer this please

but what the heck does this mean?
"They pay income taxes but are not subject to health or post-secondary tax levies"


_________________
Why do we call them fingers if no one has ever seen them fing?

8 Re: hutterite competition unfair? on Wed Nov 10, 2010 10:36 am

AGEsAces


moderator
moderator
Jondo wrote:The question is - who should change (their business practices) - the Hutterite's or the Gov't?

why should anyone have to change?

if there's a market for the hutterites to do business...then why not?

if those making the purchases were really that offended by their business practices...they would not be buying stuff from the hutterites.

And, one could argue the hutterite colonies are no different than the native reserves, or even a church-based commune. MOST of those working in the colony are doing so of their own free-will, believing they are supporting their families, friends & religion.

OF COURSE there are a few who have been/believe they have been abused in some way. And THAT should not be condoned, nor allowed by the government. But that has little to do with the business...it has to do with human rights violations and criminal laws being broken.

Shutting down some of the hutterite businesses, would be akin to prohibiting the girl scouts from selling their cookies, or the local church/school from having a car wash.

http://www.photage.ca

9 Re: hutterite competition unfair? on Wed Nov 10, 2010 11:20 am

Jondo


major-contributor
major-contributor
As a consumer and a businessman - I have few if any unionized suppliers. That wasn't my goal - it just developed as such over time due to getting the best quotes. Beynd the best cost - I further believe that the service is typically better.

But watch an NDP sponsored workplace ad in Manitoba and they'd have you believe that non-unionized employees are generally abused and have their lives placed in peril daily.

I don't think people even realize to what degree we need to rid this province of the NDP and that infectuous way of thinking.



Last edited by Jondo on Wed Nov 10, 2010 11:21 am; edited 1 time in total

10 Re: hutterite competition unfair? on Wed Nov 10, 2010 11:20 am

Guest


Guest
^

Huh??

It's not about allowing the Hutterites to be in business, but rather it's their ability to not pay wages that puts them at an unfair advantage.

If a white man did so, we'd be in jail for Human Trafficing for chrissake!

11 Re: hutterite competition unfair? on Wed Nov 10, 2010 11:26 am

Jondo


major-contributor
major-contributor
I support their communal lifestyle 100%. No different than the competitive advantage that Credit Unions garner for they and their customers.

12 Re: hutterite competition unfair? on Wed Nov 10, 2010 11:28 am

grumpy old man


administrator
administrator
Some Hutterite colonies run regular businesses (printing - build fire trucks - furniture...) and compete with other regular businesses. And tax exemption and salary exemptions provides them with an unfair advantage and should not be allowed.


_________________
Yes, I really am that Grumpy...

It's their, they're and there; in Canada it's colour, cheque, rumour and zed...

13 Re: hutterite competition unfair? on Wed Nov 10, 2010 11:32 am

Guest


Guest
Jondo wrote:I support their communal lifestyle 100%. No different than the competitive advantage that Credit Unions garner for they and their customers.

Bullsh it. Credit union must pay their employees and must pay taxes.

14 Re: hutterite competition unfair? on Wed Nov 10, 2010 11:32 am

Jondo


major-contributor
major-contributor
We buy from them and will continue to. The gov't will never be allowed to shut their operations down.

15 Re: hutterite competition unfair? on Wed Nov 10, 2010 11:36 am

Jondo


major-contributor
major-contributor
You may want to focus this ideology on the Indian "business" in Canada. Much more at stake there such as the Billion dollar cigarette distribution business as well as the casino business incuding the burgeoning on-line gaming that is operated/flaunted to the knowledge of the Fed's. Leave the Hutterites alone - they're good people doing good work.

16 Re: hutterite competition unfair? on Wed Nov 10, 2010 11:37 am

Deank


contributor eminence
contributor eminence
but what the heck does this mean?
"They pay income taxes but are not subject to health or post-secondary tax levies"


_________________
Why do we call them fingers if no one has ever seen them fing?

17 Re: hutterite competition unfair? on Wed Nov 10, 2010 11:46 am

AGEsAces


moderator
moderator
Deank wrote:but what the heck does this mean?
"They pay income taxes but are not subject to health or post-secondary tax levies"

It means they do pay income tax on the monies earned, but they don't have to pay WCB rates or EI Premiums for their workers.

I would ask the question though on whether they qualify for MB Health Cards? or do they run their own hospitals, etc.

http://www.photage.ca

18 Re: hutterite competition unfair? on Wed Nov 10, 2010 11:48 am

Guest


Guest
I don't think that is what it means.

Perhaps the reporter got it wrong, as it is the CBC eh.

19 Re: hutterite competition unfair? on Wed Nov 10, 2010 11:52 am

AGEsAces


moderator
moderator
INCIDENTALLY...those rules don't just apply to the hutterites.

Farmers/Agriculture in general are exempt from much of it.

For example if I owned a farm and my family worked it, even my cousins, uncles, etc., EVEN if I paid them for doing it, I would not have to pay WCB rates on them.
They would be expected to declare income though, and I would have to declare expense as "outside labor".

It's like hiring independent contractors across the board.

http://www.photage.ca

20 Re: hutterite competition unfair? on Wed Nov 10, 2010 11:55 am

Deank


contributor eminence
contributor eminence
how the hell are EI premiums post secondary tax levies?


_________________
Why do we call them fingers if no one has ever seen them fing?

21 Re: hutterite competition unfair? on Wed Nov 10, 2010 11:55 am

Deank


contributor eminence
contributor eminence
JTF wrote:I don't think that is what it means.

Perhaps the reporter got it wrong, as it is the CBC eh.

this I believe


_________________
Why do we call them fingers if no one has ever seen them fing?

22 Re: hutterite competition unfair? on Wed Nov 10, 2010 7:24 pm

Freeman


uber-contributor
uber-contributor
Deank wrote:but what the heck does this mean?
"They pay income taxes but are not subject to health or post-secondary tax levies"

I think they are referring to the dreaded "payroll tax"
The Health and Post Secondary Education Tax Levy


The Health and Post Secondary Education Tax Levy, known as the payroll tax, is a tax imposed on remuneration that is paid to employees. The payroll tax is paid by employers with a permanent establishment in Manitoba. Effective January 1, 2008, employers with total remuneration in a year of $1.25 million or less are exempted (see note below). Associated groups (associated corporations/certain corporate partnerships) must share the $1.25 million exemption based on the total of their combined yearly payroll.
Total Yearly PayrollTax Rate
$1.25 Million or LessExempt
Between $1.25 Million and $2.5 Million4.3% on the amount in excess of $1.25 Million (notch provision)
Over $2.5 Million2.15% of the total payroll (The $1.25 Million is not a deduction)


This has to be one of the absolute dumbest taxes of all times. So in addition to Ei, CPP, WCB premiums, an employer has the dubious honour of paying an additional tax based soley on the basis that they employ people. Got to be a socialist to think up that one.

23 Re: hutterite competition unfair? on Wed Nov 10, 2010 8:04 pm

Freeman


uber-contributor
uber-contributor
Not sure how I feel about the Hutterites "competing". Granted they don't pay the mandatory employment related costs (EI, CPP, WCB) but then again they do not receive the benefits that those programs provide. They have chosen their style of life, and you got to respect them for that. Funny that no one complained about them competing when they sold eggs and chickens, but now that they have ventured out, its a problem.

24 Re: hutterite competition unfair? on Wed Nov 10, 2010 8:22 pm

Guest


Guest
Let them compete, but make sure the playing field is even.

25 Re: hutterite competition unfair? on Wed Nov 10, 2010 9:34 pm

Guest


Guest
Jondo wrote:You may want to focus this ideology on the Indian "business" in Canada. Much more at stake there such as the Billion dollar cigarette distribution business as well as the casino business incuding the burgeoning on-line gaming that is operated/flaunted to the knowledge of the Fed's. Leave the Hutterites alone - they're good people doing good work.

Show the prove of your so called Indian Bussiness or I say BULLSHIT.

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