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Budget 2011 Consultations

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1 Budget 2011 Consultations on Mon Jan 03, 2011 7:02 pm

Winklovic

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http://www.gov.mb.ca/finance/consult/questionnaire.html

The survey should NOT be on the Province's website. It should be on the NDP website. It's using provincial resources for election purposes.

2 Re: Budget 2011 Consultations on Mon Jan 03, 2011 7:15 pm

grumpy old man

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Agreed. How does one stop a government from such activities?

I guess they need some real feedback eh? Pretty sure they will NOT like my answers.

Note the significant discussion points around social services and poverty. While necessary to battle poverty and better manage social services I suspect their approach will not be "get people off welfare and into jobs". Rather it'll be increase welfare rates and other related benefits.

Get the unemployable employed!


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Yes, I really am that Grumpy...

It's their, they're and there; in Canada it's colour, cheque, rumour and zed...

3 Re: Budget 2011 Consultations on Mon Jan 03, 2011 8:29 pm

Outsider

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Don't forget
- Increase immigration to get people who will work, pay taxes, and support the people who do not want to work.

4 Re: Budget 2011 Consultations on Mon Jan 03, 2011 10:14 pm

eViL tRoLl

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Winklovic wrote:http://www.gov.mb.ca/finance/consult/questionnaire.html

The survey should NOT be on the Province's website. It should be on the NDP website. It's using provincial resources for election purposes.
So you think that a government should not ask the populace on how they are doing? I think that the concept of such a survey is excellent and can only hope that my feedback will be used. Though I don't agree with the limited choices provided, there were also fields to add additional ideas.

5 Re: Budget 2011 Consultations on Mon Jan 03, 2011 11:04 pm

grumpy old man

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I don't TRUST this "government" to use the results in anything more than electioneering. Ditto the way this "government" will use advertising this year.

The rules need to be changed in an election year...


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Yes, I really am that Grumpy...

It's their, they're and there; in Canada it's colour, cheque, rumour and zed...

6 Re: Budget 2011 Consultations on Mon Jan 03, 2011 11:07 pm

Deank

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I dont trust ANY government that words the questions in such a way as to support their party.

I said screw it and just filled in comments like I wanted to such as

all government workers should take a 25% pay cut, all MPs should take a 50% pay cut.. money saved should be spent on buying Manitoba made produce to be given to food banks


bets that dont make it into the final report?


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7 Re: Budget 2011 Consultations on Tue Jan 04, 2011 12:46 am

eViL tRoLl

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Deank wrote:all government workers should take a 25% pay cut, all MPs should take a 50% pay cut.
Workers are unionized so pay cut would have to be negotiated, would be interesting to see if any MP are volunteering for a cut. Would you take one? My suggestions will also not be popular:
1) Increase the tax rate for incomes over 200k to 70%.
2) Cut the rewards for poor people popping out more and more babies and provide more access to birth control and timely abortion instead.

8 Re: Budget 2011 Consultations on Tue Jan 04, 2011 7:27 am

rosencrentz

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That is a very good survey. Forget about the efforts to contain a person's sexual activity! That cannot work.
I put in about wasting a $Billion dollars of taxpayer money on running the Manitoba Hydro line on the west side on Lake Manitoba. Govt has to follow the Winnipeg rule of "Cheapest is the best".


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9 Re: Budget 2011 Consultations on Tue Jan 04, 2011 8:46 am

grumpy old man

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eViL tRoLl wrote:1) Increase the tax rate for incomes over 200k to 70%.
I've often wondered why some people want to tax high income earners so unfairly? Why is this tax rate warranted?

High income earners already pay significantly more in taxes. Assume a 20% flat tax rate existed. Someone earning $20k would pay $4k in tax. Someone earning $200k would pay ten times that amount, $40k.

And $40k is not enough?

Never mind that a flat tax does not exist. There is a different tax rate for those higher income earners plus there are surtaxes added in.

I think a better way to do this is warranted. Let's go with the flat rate. Let's have a tax holiday for low income earners. Let's completely eliminate tax breaks.


_________________
Yes, I really am that Grumpy...

It's their, they're and there; in Canada it's colour, cheque, rumour and zed...

10 Re: Budget 2011 Consultations on Tue Jan 04, 2011 9:10 am

grumpy old man

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From brodbeck's column this morning:
HOW WE RANK

Provincial income taxes 2010

Two-earner family of four making $60,000:

1 Quebec $4,762

2 Manitoba $3,100

3 P.E.I. $3,045

4 Nova Scotia $2,669

5 Newfoundland $2,568

6 New Brunswick $2,519

7 Alberta $1,332

8 British Columbia $1,156

9 Saskatchewan $937

10 Ontario $773

Two-earner family of five making $75,000:

1 Quebec $7,244

2 P.E.I. $4,544

3 Manitoba $4,226

4 Newfoundland $3,989

5 Nova Scotia $3,935

6 New Brunswick $3,729

7 Alberta $2,214

8 British Columbia $1,820

9 Ontario $1,724

10 Saskatchewan $1,689

Source: Manitoba budget 2010


_________________
Yes, I really am that Grumpy...

It's their, they're and there; in Canada it's colour, cheque, rumour and zed...

11 Re: Budget 2011 Consultations on Tue Jan 04, 2011 10:21 am

Guest

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Somebody should tell Selinger that the race is to get to the bottom and not the top of the list.

12 Re: Budget 2011 Consultations on Tue Jan 04, 2011 11:25 am

Deank

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"Workers are unionized so pay cut would have to be negotiated,"

Or they can just go work somewhere else.

Unions can say they represent people. But if the employer simply says no. Then its no.


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13 Re: Budget 2011 Consultations on Tue Jan 04, 2011 1:18 pm

Guest

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Dean. Where it come to this government and unions, the tail clearly wags the dog. It would have to wait til after the next election.

14 Re: Budget 2011 Consultations on Tue Jan 04, 2011 1:21 pm

Deank

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Even then it wont.

The Manitoba government has created a false sense of economic stability and growth by heavily investing other provinces money in the growth of government funded jobs.

This has resulted in an absolutely MASSIVE amount of people working directly or indirectly in government paid positions. Cutting all of those by 25% or even suggesting it would result in about 40% of the workforce or more being impacted and 30% of the workforce is a massive enough amount of people to sway any election or decision.


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Why do we call them fingers if no one has ever seen them fing?

15 Re: Budget 2011 Consultations on Tue Jan 04, 2011 1:27 pm

Guest

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Heh...I wouldn't make job-cuts an election issue. You do these things gradually, quietly and after you are elected.

Just as Doer and Selinger have hired, one can "re-position" or fire. Nicely of course. Wink

16 Re: Budget 2011 Consultations on Tue Jan 04, 2011 1:39 pm

Triniman

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What are these new-ish Provincial jobs that are clearly wasteful? They must exist, but what are they?


I guess we'll find out for sure, after the election, if Hugh gets in.


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“Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through
our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that
democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'



― Isaac Asimov

17 Re: Budget 2011 Consultations on Tue Jan 04, 2011 1:39 pm

Deank

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dont be to sure. some of these moronic contract deals state the job force will never be downsized... and if there is no where for them to go.. they get paid to sit there and do nothing


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Why do we call them fingers if no one has ever seen them fing?

18 Re: Budget 2011 Consultations on Tue Jan 04, 2011 1:48 pm

eViL tRoLl

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Deank wrote:This has resulted in an absolutely MASSIVE amount of people working directly or indirectly in government paid positions. Cutting all of those by 25% or even suggesting it would result in about 40% of the workforce or more being impacted and 30% of the workforce is a massive enough amount of people to sway any election or decision.
Nevertheles the survey asks if there were to be cuts, what would your priorities in cutting be. I don't think there are options for bloated administration or redundant capital projects such as the stadium.



Last edited by eViL tRoLl on Tue Jan 04, 2011 2:38 pm; edited 1 time in total

19 Re: Budget 2011 Consultations on Tue Jan 04, 2011 1:49 pm

Deank

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nope those options do not exist.


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Why do we call them fingers if no one has ever seen them fing?

20 Re: Budget 2011 Consultations on Tue Jan 04, 2011 3:10 pm

grumpy old man

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The new government will need to address the bloated bureaucracies. If smart, they can do it where the pain is not that great.

First, target the contracts. Get rid of the language that restricts down-sizing. Do it cooperatively. Make the union leaders understand that it WILL happen, with or without their cooperation.

Then pick a number: say 5%. Reduce all bureaucracies by 5% each and every year. Try to let attrition do the heavy lifting. Make a manager go through hoops before allowing a stay of execution.

Pick a target date: say 2020. By 2020 the Manitoba bureaucracy will be reduced by "x" people AND "x" dollars.

Stay the course.


_________________
Yes, I really am that Grumpy...

It's their, they're and there; in Canada it's colour, cheque, rumour and zed...

21 Re: Budget 2011 Consultations on Tue Jan 04, 2011 3:17 pm

umcrouc0

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The tricky part about that is that job security is the #1 priority of unions. Wages and benefits are one thing, but if you start talking about reductions, that's where they will really dig in.

22 Re: Budget 2011 Consultations on Tue Jan 04, 2011 3:33 pm

grumpy old man

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Let them dig in. If that does not work place a twenty year moratorium on hiring...


_________________
Yes, I really am that Grumpy...

It's their, they're and there; in Canada it's colour, cheque, rumour and zed...

23 Re: Budget 2011 Consultations on Tue Jan 04, 2011 3:46 pm

eViL tRoLl

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grumpy old man wrote:
First, target the contracts. Get rid of the language that restricts down-sizing. Do it cooperatively. Make the union leaders understand that it WILL happen, with or without their cooperation.

Then pick a number: say 5%. Reduce all bureaucracies by 5% each and every year. Try to let attrition do the heavy lifting. Make a manager go through hoops before allowing a stay of execution.
So there are many unions and I guess we should start with the one that has the most lucrative contract. A review of the public accounts is very revealing:
http://www.gov.mb.ca/finance/pdf/annualreports/pubacct_3_10.pdf
This basically shows that 42% of the goverment expenditures (10.5 billion) go toward the department of health (4.5 billion). If you go to the section where the health department is described in more detail it shows that about 93% of their budget goes toward the Health Services Insurance Fund (4.2 billion). The Health Services Insurance Fund is used to pay physicians according to their union contract. In other words about half of our budget is spent on the docs. Is there much point in whittling away the secretaries that make $18/hour when many of our god-like physicians are grossing close to a half million each year?

24 Re: Budget 2011 Consultations on Tue Jan 04, 2011 3:59 pm

grumpy old man

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And are you saying that HALF the health budget is spent on doctors? Those employed by the province? That's not where I'm advocating cuts.

That's just one area of health. Look at the bureaucracy (WRHA - MRHA) versus the front line troops.

I don't think you are against reducing spending by 5 or 10 or 20%. Is your concern it is not possible? Can you be more specific?


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Yes, I really am that Grumpy...

It's their, they're and there; in Canada it's colour, cheque, rumour and zed...

25 Re: Budget 2011 Consultations on Tue Jan 04, 2011 4:10 pm

Deank

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umcrouc0 wrote:The tricky part about that is that job security is the #1 priority of unions. Wages and benefits are one thing, but if you start talking about reductions, that's where they will really dig in.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/04/business/04labor.html?_r=3&hp

"Faced with growing budget deficits and restive taxpayers, elected
officials from Maine to Alabama, Ohio to Arizona, are pushing new
legislation to limit the power of labor unions, particularly those
representing government workers, in collective bargaining and politics."


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