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this election i am voting green.

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51 Re: this election i am voting green. on Fri Sep 23, 2011 11:02 am

Stonekiller


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Bottom line of our main platform is everyone keeps asking where is
all this money coming from? We are the only party NOT promising to
spend more money. We will use the funds in the existing budgets through
reallocation and redistribution, at our heart we would LOVE to be able
to remove all payroll taxes, knowing it will take a long time, but will
be the most beneficial in the long run.

That's the crux of the matter, what would you cut in order to make these platform items sustainable?

If the NDP were able to make post secondary education free for everyone don't you think they would have done it?

What about the guaranteed income? How will that work?

The only way I see the Green platform being viable is through increased taxes, and bigger transfer payments from the Feds. There is finite amount of money to work with here, in order to promote these social programs something else has to give.

52 Re: this election i am voting green. on Fri Sep 23, 2011 11:04 am

Deank

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"Come up with some costs before you will ever be taken for anything but a bunch of political groupies that no other party wants."

sure sure JTF.. you go tell the PCs, NDP, and Libs to actually realistically cost stuff out and we will play the same game. Also.. can you make sure its only the candidates costing it out and not paid for by party money given to them by the government? that'd be great


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53 Re: this election i am voting green. on Fri Sep 23, 2011 11:07 am

Deank

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"
That's the crux of the matter, what would you cut in order to make these platform items sustainable?"

Bureaucratic bloat for one. Increased revenue from increased jobs for another.


"If the NDP were able to make post secondary education free for everyone don't you think they would have done it?"

No, its not in their best interest to spend money that way, they rather spend it on unnecessary GOVERNMENT job creation because then they have an electorate beholden to them.


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54 Re: this election i am voting green. on Fri Sep 23, 2011 11:16 am

Stonekiller

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Increased Jobs from where? The greens plan includes cutting jobs in the Hydro sector, the Trucking Sector, and the Public Sector... What are these people going to do? This doesn't include all the spinoff jobs, from the other sectors tied to this.

I'm sorry Dean, but the Green platform is so vague and filled with promises that just don't seem practical.

Bureaucratic Bloat is something I do believe needs to be looked at. However careful pruning needs to be done to ensure that the level of service is maintained with as little impact to Manitoban's as possible.

55 Re: this election i am voting green. on Fri Sep 23, 2011 11:40 am

Deank

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no.. we are not cutting jobs from hydro. We are changing what those jobs are being worked on.

The majority of the increased jobs will come from technology as well as using our already existing resources more and exporting finished products instead of raw materials.

It seems quite ludicrous to me that we take our lumber our minerals and our farm products, export them halfway around the world for processing and then re-import those products for sale here. Why are we not investing in and using those raw materials ourselves? Why are we not at the forefront of innovation in new electric technologies if we have so much of it to use?

For the record... Our platform is far more detailed then any of the other party platforms IF you take the time to read them all you will see that.


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56 Re: this election i am voting green. on Fri Sep 23, 2011 11:50 am

Guest

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Detailed eh....but without costs. That makes it just platitudes imo.



C'mon Dean. Get real. Smile

57 Re: this election i am voting green. on Fri Sep 23, 2011 11:58 am

Deank

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Show me the costs in any party's platform that are realistic AND 100% done by the candidates.. hell just show me any party's platform that actually has detailed financial information even if just for one major item.


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58 Re: this election i am voting green. on Fri Sep 23, 2011 1:00 pm

Stonekiller

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Aside from the fact that Manufacturing in North America is all but obsolete, I would be curious as to how it would compete with the manufacturing done in India, China? People don't care where things are made, they want the best bang for their buck.

I would love to see MB Hydro investing more capital into new tech, I understand that in some areas they have done a lot to improve the design and manufacture of water turbines. It would be nice to see them also move into large scale solar collection as well. Another area would be Electrical storage. So much that can be improved. However again that should be up to hydro and not the province.

59 Re: this election i am voting green. on Fri Sep 23, 2011 1:04 pm

Deank

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Hydro needs the incentive and thats the point of the platform. ie renaming them Manitoba Energy makes them hopefully start to think outside the box.


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60 Re: this election i am voting green. on Fri Sep 23, 2011 1:25 pm

Stonekiller

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So I took the time to read through the Green Platform, lots of good stuff in there, would make for a utopian paradise.

I have to ask again where is the money going to come from? There is certainly areas to improve upon in government. But again realistically without raising taxes or whatever I just don't see where the money is going to come from.

61 Re: this election i am voting green. on Fri Sep 23, 2011 1:29 pm

Deank

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"I have to ask again where is the money going to come from?"

What money?


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62 Re: this election i am voting green. on Fri Sep 23, 2011 1:33 pm

Mantha

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Deank wrote:Hydro needs the incentive and thats the point of the platform. ie renaming them Manitoba Energy makes them hopefully start to think outside the box.

Speaking of renaming, I think that the Green Party needs to go through a similar rebranding process. I like some of the things that they are saying, but their name makes me think that they are a bit myopic to the big picture and only focus on the environmental aspect of government responsibility above all others.

http://yaciuk.blogspot.com

63 Re: this election i am voting green. on Fri Sep 23, 2011 1:45 pm

Stonekiller

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The money to pay for these programs and initiatives?

Remove tuition from post secondary education, who is going to pay the teachers, pay for the equipment, and all the support services?

UBI - Universal Basic Income, if someone makes less than the UBI they get topped up? Where is the money for that going to come from? Increased taxation for those of us that happen to make more than the basic level? I already dislike the fact that my tax dollars go to a segment of the population that thinks that having 6 kids, and sitting at home collecting welfare is a viable career choice.

Honestly the platform reads like the manifesto of a wild communist green peace activist.

There are some solid ideas in there, but then there are some that just seem so out of place. Like the use of nanotechnology being banned? Why? Nano tech is a huge upcoming field of tech and by closing that door it makes Manitoba less desirable for future tech innovation and research.

64 Re: this election i am voting green. on Fri Sep 23, 2011 1:57 pm

Deank

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contributor eminence
"Remove tuition from post secondary education, who is going to pay the
teachers, pay for the equipment, and all the support services?"



"
UBI - Universal Basic Income, if someone makes less than the UBI they get topped up?"
Money moved from other aspects where it is no longer needed.. ie..
justice, social services. Increased money coming in from more people
working and being more productive.

Its not an implement everything at once deal.. its an over all guided approach that will be completed step by step.


Apparently McFayden can say.. WE ARE GOING TO BE A HAVE PROVINCE!!!

give absolutely no detail whatsoever and its trumpeted from the rooftops.. we say it.. and we are communists?


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65 Re: this election i am voting green. on Fri Sep 23, 2011 2:18 pm

Stonekiller

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Ahh but being a have a province is significantly different than being a communist.

The government has a responsibility to the taxpayers and the citizens of this province. I want to see more of the money I earn in my pocket at the end of the day, that is what it means to be a have province. Your party plan has more of the money I earn going into other peoples pockets that is communism.

66 Re: this election i am voting green. on Fri Sep 23, 2011 2:20 pm

Deank

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not correct. Significantly less of your money will be going into other people's pockets under our plan.

we are the only party suggesting that the basic personal exemption get raised for one. And the only party saying we need to diversify and expand our work force for the other.

We are more PC then the PC party.


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67 Re: this election i am voting green. on Fri Sep 23, 2011 2:31 pm

Stonekiller

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I disagree but the proof will be in the election.

68 Re: this election i am voting green. on Fri Sep 23, 2011 2:40 pm

Deank

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unfortunately.. no it wont. Like you, most people are not understanding it and simply think omg.. green = socialist.
sure free bus ride and free education.. sounds socialist..

until you realize we are not asking anyone to give more money for it. paying for the bus comes through using money in existing programs and the money saved by how much savings there is on wear and tear on the road and other such items. You are right its not 100% costed out.. thats why we are the only party that has fiscal prudence right in our platform to ensure that we will be held accountable and not start spending like pigs at the trough. The other parties want to spend more of your money, more of your children's money, even more of your grand children's money. We dont. Programs will only proceed as they are properly costed and leveraged for value.

"Commit ourselves to balanced budgets, debt reduction, and fiscal
prudence."


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69 Re: this election i am voting green. on Fri Sep 23, 2011 2:47 pm

Triniman

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Deank wrote:We are more PC then the PC party.

How Libertarian are the Greens?


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“Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through
our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that
democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'



― Isaac Asimov

70 Re: this election i am voting green. on Fri Sep 23, 2011 3:02 pm

Deank

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contributor eminence
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not as much as you would want.


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71 Re: this election i am voting green. on Fri Sep 23, 2011 4:19 pm

Stonekiller

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The problem is Dean, that your party platform comes across as very socialist. At least to me, and I am pretty sure my reading comprehension hasn't declined.

Manitoban's want value for their money, your platform is very non-specific about how you intend to pay for these programs. When people like Joe Citizen see "Free tuition" the first thing that pops in their head is "How the heck are we going to pay for that?" Your platform is based on what you hope to accomplish, however it seems that not enough homework was done. You don't know if some of your platform items are even feasible in the existing budgetary levels, and if you reduce the government's revenue you have an even smaller pot to work with. I am not an expert of Macro Economics, but I do understand that the government has x amount of dollars to do everything it needs. The province needs to learn to live within those means.

No one is going to take you guys seriously enough to elect you into any kind of governmental power. But to be honest none of the other Party's have come to the table with anything other than Spend Spend Spend. If there is one thing I can agree on is that both the NDP and the PC's have no problem spending my tax dollars.

72 Re: this election i am voting green. on Fri Sep 23, 2011 6:06 pm

Triniman

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If they hadn't included so many pie-in-the-sky ideas, they would be taken more seriously. Gotta wonder about the party strategists...trojan horse?


_________________
“Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through
our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that
democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'



― Isaac Asimov

73 Re: this election i am voting green. on Fri Sep 23, 2011 8:21 pm

Deank

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nope ..most legite party there is


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74 Re: this election i am voting green. on Sat Sep 24, 2011 7:18 am

rosencrentz

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If the Green platform is vague and many promises than that is good enough for my vote!

I will consider the Conservatives because I am just amazed at how much nicer the leaders suite is, and he said he bought it at that discount store for under $159.

Could he be lyinung to us? What do you think he paid for that suite?


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