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manitobaelection.ca

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76 Re: manitobaelection.ca on Wed Sep 28, 2011 10:22 am

Deank


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sorry 8 members

http://www.saskparty.com/party/timeline#1997

77 Re: manitobaelection.ca on Wed Sep 28, 2011 10:41 am

Stonekiller

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You mean to say that the party couldn't get enough candidates even in urban ridings such as Transcona, St. Vital, St. Norbert, Thompson? These are pretty significant ridings, its not like the party hasn't had the time? There have been a number of elections since the party formed in 1998.

78 Re: manitobaelection.ca on Wed Sep 28, 2011 10:47 am

Deank

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Most people who are politically active are active in one of the existing parties, getting them to switch is difficult. Further to that, when you dont have a budget for travel or phone to speak of, it again makes it difficult. We are double the number of candidates from last election. We will have a full slate of candidates in the next election.

Further....why exactly does it matter if we have a full slate? I know some of the NDP PC and Lib candidates are not even doing any campaigning in their own area since they dont have a hope in hell of winning they are using the resources for other key areas. Other then in name, are those candidates really on the list?


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79 Re: manitobaelection.ca on Wed Sep 28, 2011 10:54 am

AGEsAces

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The problem with the Green Party, is that there have been too many wingnuts who have run and gave the Party a really bad name.

Add to that, the fact that many PETA members support Green Party initiatives, and it goes to support that wingnut theory.

To be honest...the impression I've had of them since they started, was that they are for the environment, what PETA is for the animal rights movement. Along the same lines as GreenPeace.

While there is not a direct association with them, it's the impression that's been implanted in people's minds...and that's VERY hard to overcome when the candidates being brought forward SEEM more academic than leadership material.

To be fair though...the benefit of having "green" candidates in the Green Party, is that they will go into the office with the enthusiasm & zeal of trying to actually make changes...which could be a great thing towards the change of how "things are done". Hopefully, they don't go in blindly though, expecting everything to change immediately...or because they think it's what the people want and that's why they were elected.

Experiments have been done many times proving that when it comes to elections...it's name recognition and "presentation" which get people elected. Not as much their platform or party.

http://www.photage.ca

80 Re: manitobaelection.ca on Wed Sep 28, 2011 10:55 am

Deank

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"To be honest...the impression I've had of them since they started, was
that they are for the environment, what PETA is for the animal rights
movement. Along the same lines as GreenPeace."

I know.. its a difficult impression to get over, but, its an impression that is not accurate.


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81 Re: manitobaelection.ca on Wed Sep 28, 2011 11:00 am

Guest

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I saw an interview with the Head Greenie this am.





Re: Free transit. The guy didn't have a clue. He doesn't know how much it cost to run transit. He doesn't know from where he would get the money to pay for it. etc.



Wing nut. Clueless wing nut at that.

82 Re: manitobaelection.ca on Wed Sep 28, 2011 11:09 am

Stonekiller

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My impression is that the Green's are terribly unprepared. Dean even said that until everything is costed out and analyzed that they have no way to provide concrete figures. That seems pretty lackadaisical to me. Every party knows what the provincial budget in dollars is, they know what the current expenditures are, again not an expert in macro economics here, but if you have those two figures you know what you have to work with.

Maybe you are on the ball Dean, but the rest of your party seems to be out to lunch and left you holding the bag.

As for running a full slate, how do you propose then to represent all Manitobans when your party can't even find a candidate for all of the major urban ridings. You want us to vote green, even if I wanted to I can't because I don't have a green candidate in my area. If I were all for the Green party I would have no voice in this election.



Last edited by Stonekiller on Wed Sep 28, 2011 11:13 am; edited 1 time in total

83 Re: manitobaelection.ca on Wed Sep 28, 2011 11:11 am

Guest

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Don't people judge you by the company you keep?

84 Re: manitobaelection.ca on Wed Sep 28, 2011 11:22 am

Deank

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The concrete figures that every other Party can provide are
A) far from accurate and rarely concrete
B) costed out by someone paid to do that.


There are always unknowns for every project, and instead of lying and saying it has every answer possible, the Green party admits it will take further investigation.

Free transit for example

Why do we force people to pay for transit passes and then at tax time give them a rebate? Why not just apply the rebate to begin with and lower the transit fee?
(thats 15% savings right there)

Money saved by more people taking the bus, will cause us to spend less money on infrastructure.

Money saved by less pollution being generated will equate to longer term savings in health

Money saved by not having to provide social assistance transit money is again another savings. (and no.. thats not documented in the budget it just falls under social services)


AND... even more of an issue is that its only 70 million total right now AND the savings we generate through reduced bureaucracy in all the other areas of budget (especially in social services and health) will easily pay for Free Transit.

Or.. you could vote for the other parties that want to increase the bureaucracy and spend more of your money.


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85 Re: manitobaelection.ca on Wed Sep 28, 2011 11:24 am

Deank

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" If I were all for the Green party I would have no voice in this election."

You could run. (well not any more) but you could have.

Again.. donate to us. Every year, the maximum amount you can afford and that is allowed under the law. The Green Party could mount a campaign just as good as the other guys if we had the money.


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Why do we call them fingers if no one has ever seen them fing?

86 Re: manitobaelection.ca on Wed Sep 28, 2011 11:32 am

eViL tRoLl

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Stonekiller wrote:Every party knows what the provincial budget in dollars is, they know what the current expenditures are, again not an expert in macro economics here, but if you have those two figures you know what you have to work with.

The governing party always has a huge information advantage. All they need to do is snip their fingers and hundreds of civil servants have to run and provide the information that is needed. Any other party will need go through tedious freedom of information requests or wait until public information is released. You can rest assured that PC, Liberals, Greens are fairly clueless about the realities of what is going on.

87 Re: manitobaelection.ca on Wed Sep 28, 2011 11:40 am

Deank

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"You can rest assured that PC, Liberals, Greens are fairly clueless about the realities of what is going on."

Which is why... you can be guarenteed that IF a different party gets in, there will be an announcement within 3 months.. OMG, like the province is totally way worse off then we thought!


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88 Re: manitobaelection.ca on Wed Sep 28, 2011 11:42 am

Stonekiller

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The provincial budget is public information. It has to be. But you are correct the NDP have that information at hand. However as I mentioned before what the provinces has in terms of overall dollars isn't a secret by any measure. As a party platform item a provincial budget should be part and parcel with all their promises. How is that pie going to be sliced up and spread around?

As for running, I have zero aspirations of running for public office. That doesn't change the problem, if a person can't vote for the party they want what will make them vote at all?

89 Re: manitobaelection.ca on Wed Sep 28, 2011 11:44 am

AGEsAces

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Deank wrote:Why do we force people to pay for transit passes and then at tax time give them a rebate? Why not just apply the rebate to begin with and lower the transit fee?
(thats 15% savings right there)

THAT one I can answer.

For the same reason stores offer mail-in rebates and other "after-sale" rebates.

Because they know that a large majority of those who use the transit system will NEVER apply for the rebate, thus more money in the coffers.

Which I personally agree with 100%.

The transit system should be paying for itself, not be subsidized by taxpayers...especially those who may NEVER have a reason to ride it.

http://www.photage.ca

90 Re: manitobaelection.ca on Wed Sep 28, 2011 11:51 am

grumpy old man

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Transit by its' very nature can never generate satisfactory revenues to be both self-sustaining and meet everyone's needs.

In the US the feds subsidize public transit. In Manitoba most revenues come from users and the city. The province should contribute significantly more IMO. Without strings...


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91 Re: manitobaelection.ca on Wed Sep 28, 2011 11:55 am

Deank

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"The transit system should be paying for itself, not be subsidized by
taxpayers...especially those who may NEVER have a reason to ride it."

So what you are saying is there should be no public transit?

odd opinion...but if that is what you want, that is your choice.


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92 Re: manitobaelection.ca on Wed Sep 28, 2011 12:10 pm

eViL tRoLl

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AGEsAces wrote:The transit system should be paying for itself, not be subsidized by taxpayers...especially those who may NEVER have a reason to ride it.

Maybe we should change the way of thinking about public transit as a revenue generating service, and more as infrastructure and a right to transportation for all, like a sidewalk or a road. Paying for public transportation is like paying a toll for all roads. Riding a car on the other hand is a huge privilege and way too cheap, so charging those with cars MUCH more (based on km driven) would be an easy way to fund this. On the other hand, if people walk or use other active transportation instead of public transit, they could get a tax refund for this due to the health benefits and reduced burden on health system use.

93 Re: manitobaelection.ca on Wed Sep 28, 2011 12:22 pm

Deank

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One of the Green party ideas is to also give you credit for car insurance based on driving less. ie... someone who drives 20000K per year, pays full amount, someone who drives 3000K per year gets a reduction. ( those numbers are my own numbers and are used for illustrative purposes only )

I like this idea, but it would be very difficult to implement simply because too many people would take advantage of the system and roll their odometers back

someone might have a better way of implementing it that I have not thought of though.


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94 Re: manitobaelection.ca on Wed Sep 28, 2011 12:30 pm

grumpy old man

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eViL tRoLl wrote:...so charging those with cars MUCH more (based on km driven) would be an easy way to fund this.
They do charge for this. With every litre of gasoline sold drivers pay a huge "toll" to use the roads.

If only 100% of those gas taxes were allotted to the roads...


_________________
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It's their, they're and there; in Canada it's colour, cheque, rumour and zed...

95 Re: manitobaelection.ca on Wed Sep 28, 2011 12:37 pm

Deank

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"If only 100% of those gas taxes were allotted to the roads..."

100% agreed.


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Why do we call them fingers if no one has ever seen them fing?

96 Re: manitobaelection.ca on Wed Sep 28, 2011 12:40 pm

Deank

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I wish every tax was 100% allocated to its reason for being brought into existence.

We have a freakin tire tax for example, supposedly to help with the environment to deal with the excess tires... and there is no way that money goes to that.


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97 Re: manitobaelection.ca on Wed Sep 28, 2011 1:12 pm

Triniman

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grumpy old man wrote:Transit by its' very nature can never generate satisfactory revenues to be both self-sustaining and meet everyone's needs.

In the US the feds subsidize public transit. In Manitoba most revenues come from users and the city. The province should contribute significantly more IMO. Without strings...

Transit should not be paid for by taxpayers. It should be operated by a private for-profit enterprise. Ditto garbage pickup.


_________________
“Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through
our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that
democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'



― Isaac Asimov

98 Re: manitobaelection.ca on Wed Sep 28, 2011 1:36 pm

Guest

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Exactly.....with the appropriate decrease in taxes collected though.



For sure, I don't want it ingrained as a Right.

99 Re: manitobaelection.ca on Wed Sep 28, 2011 1:40 pm

grumpy old man

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I wonder if there is a private urban transit company anywhere in the world? Is private urban transit even possible? Practical?


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Yes, I really am that Grumpy...

It's their, they're and there; in Canada it's colour, cheque, rumour and zed...

100 Re: manitobaelection.ca on Wed Sep 28, 2011 1:43 pm

Guest

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Cancun has them.



They have wild buses too...stick shifts but luxurious...some not so luxurious but all better than here. All charge the same price.

101 Re: manitobaelection.ca on Wed Sep 28, 2011 1:46 pm

Triniman

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JTF wrote:Exactly.....with the appropriate decrease in taxes collected though.



For sure, I don't want it ingrained as a Right.

Agreed.


_________________
“Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through
our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that
democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'



― Isaac Asimov

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