the winnipeg sandbox

Latest topics

» Gord Steeves should run for Mayor
by FlyingRat Wed Aug 13, 2014 4:58 pm

» To discontinue?
by EdWin Sat Jul 12, 2014 9:26 pm

» Sandbox breakfast get-together, Saturday, January 25, 2014.
by rosencrentz Fri Apr 11, 2014 11:27 pm

» 2013-14 Bisons/CIS Thread
by Hollywood Tue Apr 01, 2014 11:56 pm

» Katz must resign
by cobragt Mon Oct 28, 2013 5:09 pm

» Best Breakfast/Brunch
by cobragt Mon Oct 28, 2013 5:07 pm

» Manitoba Action Party
by RogerStrong Mon Oct 21, 2013 2:24 pm

» Police Respond to a silent alarm With Guns Drawn
by EdWin Tue Aug 20, 2013 10:10 pm

» Details about Cineplex SuperTicket -- interesting promotion
by MattKel Thu Jul 18, 2013 4:08 pm

» Freep locks out non-subscriber commentary
by Deank Mon Jul 08, 2013 3:58 pm

» 7-year sentence for Berlusconi
by FlyingRat Mon Jun 24, 2013 2:32 pm

» New Stadium
by grumpy old man Mon May 27, 2013 4:34 pm

» Winnipeg News Android App
by grumpy old man Mon May 27, 2013 4:33 pm

» First Post
by grumpy old man Fri May 24, 2013 2:43 pm

» The New Sals at Pembina and Stafford
by grumpy old man Thu Apr 25, 2013 1:35 pm

» Emma Watson wants to do nude scenes for 50 shades of grey movie
by FlyingRat Wed Apr 24, 2013 10:39 am

» Museum finally admits it needs to raise more money priovately.
by FlyingRat Wed Apr 24, 2013 10:32 am

» And You Thought Your Taxes Are High Now!!!
by FlyingRat Wed Apr 24, 2013 10:21 am

» free chocolate sample
by cobragt Sun Mar 31, 2013 6:12 pm

» Do you want a gift certificate for A winnipeg restraunt?
by cobragt Sun Mar 31, 2013 6:12 pm


You are not connected. Please login or register

Adopt proportional representation voting?

View previous topic View next topic Go down  Message [Page 1 of 1]

1 Adopt proportional representation voting? on Thu Oct 06, 2011 1:50 pm

Triniman

avatar
general-contributor
general-contributor
Close in the popular vote but the NDP ended up with the largest majority in modern Manitoba history.

Does this sit well with you?

What if we had proportional representation? Our currrent system is known as "first-past-the-post" (FPTP.) It results in majorities.

On the other hand, Harper benefitted from FPTP with a majority despite not receiving a majority of the votes cast. The Tories won 40% of the popular vote to the NDPs 31%.

This translated to 166 seats (54%) for Harper and 103 (33%) for Layton.

The danger of electoral injustice

"...despite increasing their vote almost seven points from 2007 to a virtual tie with the NDP -- 44.2 per cent to 45.8 per cent -- the Conservatives failed to win a single new seat, leaving them with the 19 they had when the writs were dropped. They merely piled up even-bigger majorities in their ever-smaller southern enclave.

Such electoral injustice breeds cynicism, contempt and, finally, anger."


_________________
“Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through
our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that
democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'



― Isaac Asimov

2 Re: Adopt proportional representation voting? on Thu Oct 06, 2011 2:04 pm

Deank

avatar
contributor eminence
contributor eminence
flin flon has 9030 registered voters
Fort gary has 13819
Morris has 15086


You know where I see the problem as being?


_________________
Why do we call them fingers if no one has ever seen them fing?

3 Re: Adopt proportional representation voting? on Thu Oct 06, 2011 2:18 pm

darkwind

avatar
contributor
contributor
The first past the post system benefits the status quo, benefits the people who are in power.

People raise this concept after every election. It's not going to happen. Period.

People need to take their "anger" and use it more effectively,for support of their party or candidate and getting involved constructively in the process and maybe their party would do better next time...

4 Re: Adopt proportional representation voting? on Thu Oct 06, 2011 2:21 pm

Deank

avatar
contributor eminence
contributor eminence
I am all for electoral reform.. I just dont know that proportional is the right way to go. Its too convoluted and takes MY power to choose who represents me/my district away.


_________________
Why do we call them fingers if no one has ever seen them fing?

5 Re: Adopt proportional representation voting? on Thu Oct 06, 2011 2:42 pm

eViL tRoLl

avatar
contributor plus
contributor plus
Deank wrote:flin flon has 9030 registered voters
Fort gary has 13819
Morris has 15086


You know where I see the problem as being?


So we should redraw electoral boudaries each time we have an election and make sure the same numbers of voters are available? That's one step. But the "popular vote" also reflect how many people actually vote and that's not as easily controlled as the number of people eligible to vote, and may vary considerably from one area to another.

But your examples somewhat reflects the election results, where the south was painted blue and the north and most of Winnipeg showed in orange.

The WFP states "Winnipeggers voted. People in contentious ridings really voted. Rural voters were lethargic. And northerners stayed home en masse."

6 Re: Adopt proportional representation voting? on Thu Oct 06, 2011 2:52 pm

Guest

avatar
Guest
Proportional representation will lead to numerous parties and coalition governments with sh1t for brains politicians getting in with their friends' votes.

Our present system allows for parties to key in on particular ridings between elections to win them over....if they don't...don't blame the system.

7 Re: Adopt proportional representation voting? on Thu Oct 06, 2011 5:29 pm

rosencrentz

avatar
uber-contributor
uber-contributor
Proportional representation would potentially get us "better" representation. Tuesdays vote would have 26 seats each for the NDP and Conservatives and Dr. Jerrards Liberals would have 4 and DeanK's Green party 1.

This would allow Dr. Jerard to have the balance of power!

Proportional rep would allow us to emulate Italy and Israel's parliament, and then have additional parties like the Communists to run and be heard. There were only 2 Communists running and they got 69 votes. Where is their input?

I think in Italy in the last 11 years , they have had 17 elections or vice versa.


_________________
They cut my back open ! Help!
http://www.elansofas.com

8 Re: Adopt proportional representation voting? on Thu Oct 06, 2011 5:31 pm

Deank

avatar
contributor eminence
contributor eminence
so let say we adopt proportional rep.

57 candidates for party X run

Party X gets enough votes to claim19 seats. How the hell do you decide which of the 57 get a seat?


_________________
Why do we call them fingers if no one has ever seen them fing?

9 Re: Adopt proportional representation voting? on Thu Oct 06, 2011 5:49 pm

Triniman

avatar
general-contributor
general-contributor
I find this version of proportional rep. too crazy. There are other versions that seem saner.


_________________
“Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through
our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that
democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'



― Isaac Asimov

10 Re: Adopt proportional representation voting? on Thu Oct 06, 2011 6:10 pm

Deank

avatar
contributor eminence
contributor eminence
The NWT have an interesting way of doing elections.

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/canada/breakingnews/winning-nwt-candidates-to-now-turn-attention-to-picking-premier-131031298.html

No political parties, whomever gets elected meets later to choose leader, leader chooses cabinet, those not in cabinet are "the opposition"


never mind the awesomeness of them having a borrowing cap that limits borrowing funds


not that I believe for one minute there is not "hidden" political parties just like on council.. but damn.. nice process


_________________
Why do we call them fingers if no one has ever seen them fing?

11 Re: Adopt proportional representation voting? on Thu Oct 06, 2011 6:13 pm

Deank

avatar
contributor eminence
contributor eminence
Triniman wrote:I find this version of proportional rep. too crazy. There are other versions that seem saner.

Australias is interesting

copmpulsory elections and the interesting preferential voting.

ie.. you number the candidates by rank of who you would like to see win


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_electoral_system


_________________
Why do we call them fingers if no one has ever seen them fing?

12 Re: Adopt proportional representation voting? on Thu Oct 06, 2011 6:22 pm

Guest

avatar
Guest
But not very much saner.

Various formulas have been tried to make this type of government work...but it's still a messy slow and ugly form of government. Italy, Greece, Iceland and Israel are examples of this type.

Our present system is much better imo.

13 Re: Adopt proportional representation voting? on Thu Oct 06, 2011 6:26 pm

Triniman

avatar
general-contributor
general-contributor
JTF wrote:Our present system is much better imo.

It's a compromise. We have a majority of voters not voting for the NDP and yet here they have a majority. That's not right.


_________________
“Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through
our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that
democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'



― Isaac Asimov

14 Re: Adopt proportional representation voting? on Thu Oct 06, 2011 7:31 pm

Deank

avatar
contributor eminence
contributor eminence
fix riding size and the problemmostly goes away


_________________
Why do we call them fingers if no one has ever seen them fing?

15 Re: Adopt proportional representation voting? on Tue Oct 11, 2011 5:05 pm

Triniman

avatar
general-contributor
general-contributor
If every vote counted, NDP wouldn't have majority

"Fair Vote Canada pointed out McFadyen got a larger share of the popular vote in Manitoba (44 per cent) than Prime Minister Stephen Harper did in Canada last spring (40 per cent). Yet Harper got a majority government and McFadyen got shown the door."


_________________
“Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through
our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that
democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'



― Isaac Asimov

16 Re: Adopt proportional representation voting? on Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:02 am

Guest

avatar
Guest
Harper is much smarter than Hughie. He got the votes where they counted.

Sponsored content


View previous topic View next topic Back to top  Message [Page 1 of 1]

Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum