the winnipeg sandbox

Latest topics

» Gord Steeves should run for Mayor
by FlyingRat Wed Aug 13, 2014 4:58 pm

» To discontinue?
by EdWin Sat Jul 12, 2014 9:26 pm

» Sandbox breakfast get-together, Saturday, January 25, 2014.
by rosencrentz Fri Apr 11, 2014 11:27 pm

» 2013-14 Bisons/CIS Thread
by Hollywood Tue Apr 01, 2014 11:56 pm

» Katz must resign
by cobragt Mon Oct 28, 2013 5:09 pm

» Best Breakfast/Brunch
by cobragt Mon Oct 28, 2013 5:07 pm

» Manitoba Action Party
by RogerStrong Mon Oct 21, 2013 2:24 pm

» Police Respond to a silent alarm With Guns Drawn
by EdWin Tue Aug 20, 2013 10:10 pm

» Details about Cineplex SuperTicket -- interesting promotion
by MattKel Thu Jul 18, 2013 4:08 pm

» Freep locks out non-subscriber commentary
by Deank Mon Jul 08, 2013 3:58 pm

» 7-year sentence for Berlusconi
by FlyingRat Mon Jun 24, 2013 2:32 pm

» New Stadium
by grumpy old man Mon May 27, 2013 4:34 pm

» Winnipeg News Android App
by grumpy old man Mon May 27, 2013 4:33 pm

» First Post
by grumpy old man Fri May 24, 2013 2:43 pm

» The New Sals at Pembina and Stafford
by grumpy old man Thu Apr 25, 2013 1:35 pm

» Emma Watson wants to do nude scenes for 50 shades of grey movie
by FlyingRat Wed Apr 24, 2013 10:39 am

» Museum finally admits it needs to raise more money priovately.
by FlyingRat Wed Apr 24, 2013 10:32 am

» And You Thought Your Taxes Are High Now!!!
by FlyingRat Wed Apr 24, 2013 10:21 am

» free chocolate sample
by cobragt Sun Mar 31, 2013 6:12 pm

» Do you want a gift certificate for A winnipeg restraunt?
by cobragt Sun Mar 31, 2013 6:12 pm


You are not connected. Please login or register

Museum finally admits it needs to raise more money priovately.

Go to page : Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next

View previous topic View next topic Go down  Message [Page 2 of 5]

grumpy old man


administrator
administrator
I think Ms. Asper has one hell of a challenge in front of her also. I wonder if anyone would have believed they would of raised $130 million 5 years ago?

Deank

avatar
contributor eminence
contributor eminence
Thats the thing. IF the costs had been properly set out at the outset... I wonder if perhaps the thing would have been scaled back to something far more reasonable?


_________________
Why do we call them fingers if no one has ever seen them fing?

grumpy old man

avatar
administrator
administrator
I think we are all going to be disappointed at the final cost of the Stadium too. Is it becoming acceptable to underestimate costs just to get a public project started?


_________________
Yes, I really am that Grumpy...

It's their, they're and there; in Canada it's colour, cheque, rumour and zed...

justmythoughts

avatar
grumpy old man wrote:I think Ms. Asper has one hell of a challenge in front of her also. I wonder if anyone would have believed they would of raised $130 million 5 years ago?

Probably the same people who thought the museum just might get built on time and on budget.

I'd still love to know how much of the 130M has actually been received.

Deank

avatar
contributor eminence
contributor eminence
grumpy old man wrote:I think we are all going to be disappointed at the final cost of the Stadium too. Is it becoming acceptable to underestimate costs just to get a public project started?

I am pretty sure we have covered that already and we all agreed that yes politicians and backers of projects love to lie about it.


_________________
Why do we call them fingers if no one has ever seen them fing?

rosencrentz

avatar
uber-contributor
uber-contributor
priovately- see you have to be able to correct at any time! This doesn't luck wright!


_________________
They cut my back open ! Help!
http://www.elansofas.com

Triniman

avatar
general-contributor
general-contributor
NDP MP Pat Martin wants the Feds to kick in more money.

Conservative MP Vic Toews believes the Feds have donated enough.

I agree with Toews. Anyone agree with Pat Martin?

Human Rights Museum needs another $50M


_________________
“Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through
our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that
democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'



― Isaac Asimov

Outsider

avatar
contributor plus
contributor plus

He already did. Last month.

http://blackrod.blogspot.com/2012/02/winnipeg-free-press-stares-blankly-into.html

Scroll to the word "museum" and read the rest of the article. (Especially his numbers.)

rosencrentz

avatar
uber-contributor
uber-contributor
This week there were 3 stories in the Free Press and the Globe and mail where estimates for costs of buildings have all ended up absolutley bullcrap, making "our" world class Museum for killed dead by their neighbours and government officials sem extremely more accurate.

Why many people on this forum have taken a special dislike for this Museum is ridiculous. The benefits are incredible, especially when you look at what is being built and compare it to the last 10 commercial, plain grey, square buildings that were built in Winnipeg.

We are going to be World Class for sure, and even more world class if the bulding cannot be finished! lol


_________________
They cut my back open ! Help!
http://www.elansofas.com

Outsider

avatar
contributor plus
contributor plus
rosencrentz wrote:This week there were 3 stories in the Free Press and the Globe and mail where estimates for costs of buildings have all ended up absolutley bullcrap
I don't understand your comment.
Are you saying the estimates to finish and run the museum on an on-going basis are too high or too low or what?

Thanks

rosencrentz

avatar
uber-contributor
uber-contributor
The criticism about not being accurate on the estimates is silly, because all estimates for all building projects done by all levels of government or bureaucracies seem to be out to lunch!

The answer was in one of the reports! It said accurate pricing does not come for free1

I find it hard to understand, but apparently there is nothing accurate until you call for final pricing.

Can anyone explain that?

Is that something that seems normal to you?


_________________
They cut my back open ! Help!
http://www.elansofas.com

Outsider

avatar
contributor plus
contributor plus
I got tired of reading various articles about this $265 million that has been bandied about in regards to the museum. So I tried to find out where it originated.
This is as far back as I had the time to look around.

http://www.parl.gc.ca/Content/SEN/Committee/392/huma/03evb-e.htm?comm_id=77&Language=E&Parl=39&Ses=2

Check the questions by Cowan and answers by Sherwood.

Triniman

avatar
general-contributor
general-contributor
The weird thing is, in this exchange, Sherwood says that inflation will be factored in. And yet, it was revealed that they didn't account for inflation.

Senator Cowan: On the page of your presentation entitled ``Background,'' it talks about $165 million having come
from various sources other than the federal government and $100 million coming from the federal government. On the
next page you say that the budget to build and fit up the museum, including exhibition development, would be capped
at $265 million.

These projects have a tendency to run over the expected costs. Who will pick up the tab if the costs exceed $265
million?

Ms. Sherwood: It is the responsibility of the board to develop an approach to the building plan that includes a
generous contingency provision designed to stay within the budget. A number of steps can be taken in planning for a
construction project with detailed design, development and costing prior to the letting of construction contracts that
enable a board to accurately assess whether the project can come in on budget.

Senator Cowan: Does the $265 million include a contingency provision?

Ms. Sherwood: Yes, it does.

Senator Cowan: This is not one of those projects where the federal government is left to pick up anything over and
above the $165 million that is contributed by other parties, is it?

Ms. Sherwood: The total budget is $265 million. You are putting your finger on a very real risk in the current
environment, which is the impact of inflation on construction budgets. That has been factored into planning and is one
of the reasons for the urgency of this bill because at the moment the purchasing power of that $265 million is being
eroded at the rate of between $800,000 and $1.5 million per month.


Senator Cowan: I am not being critical of this project. However, someone has to hold it at the end of the day.

Ms. Sherwood: The board of trustees will be accountable for bringing this project in on budget and making decisions
with respect to the building design and the contingency fund set aside that allow it to bring the project in on budget.

Senator Cowan: Is the current expectation that, if this were approved in the near future, the $265 million would be
sufficient including a generous contingency provision?

Ms. Sherwood: Yes, it includes a 15 per cent contingency provision.


_________________
“Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through
our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that
democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'



― Isaac Asimov

Deank

avatar
contributor eminence
contributor eminence
lies lies and damn lies


_________________
Why do we call them fingers if no one has ever seen them fing?

Outsider

avatar
contributor plus
contributor plus

Stonekiller

avatar
contributor
contributor
At some point this project needs to be finished. It is embarrassing already. The building by its very design cannot be re-purposed for anything but a museum or at worst fancy office space...

The funny thing is the Asper's have the cash to bail it out, but even they can't justify the expenditure.

justmythoughts

avatar
[quote="Stonekiller"]At some point this project needs to be finished. It is embarrassing already. The building by its very design cannot be re-purposed for anything but a museum or at worst fancy office space...

The funny thing is the Asper's have the cash to bail it out, but even they can't justify the expenditure.

[/quote

I'm pretty darn sure this is another attempt at a calculated move by Ms. Asper. No lending institution in it's right mind would loan Asper 50+ million to complete the museum. Gail and her band of millionaires would have to put up some serious personal collateral as the museum in of itself could never generate enough revenue to cover the interest on a 50M loan much less the principal.

With only 5M raised in 2011 it would take an effort of monumental proportions to raise another 50M in the next 2 years to open the place in 2014. We're talking around 3M every month in private donations for 24 months.

In the meantime, can we be certain the costs won't rise any further? The money must be nearing the point of being completely dried up. How much longer before construction is completely halted due to lack of funds?

Here is my fearless prediction of this thing plays out. Over the rest of this year there will be bump in private donations --- let's say 10M - 15M of "new" money.

We'll get some big news release (likely from the Freep) that private donations are moving forward at a good pace but unless the full amount is raised by say Spring 2013 the construction costs will rise again.

Cue Greg Selinger. He'll step in and announce some type of bridge financing to get the CMHR the rest of the money. Ms. Asper will step forward and vow to repay the money "no matter what".

Then, shortly after the museum opens in early 2015..... Mr. Selinger will quietly forgive the loan with little to no fanfare.

End of Story.

Feel free to guess how you think it will play out.

rosencrentz

avatar
uber-contributor
uber-contributor
The building is the prettiest in Winnipeg, next to the Sals restaurant over the River.

If it stays empty because the manager didn't know how to add up the costs properly, than that one person should have his/her salary cut back from $200,000 to $195,000!

I think it should remain unfinished , if the money cannot be arranged, as a memorial to very poor planning.

The only thing that I see is that there were 3 mentions of other buildings that were all finished by the government when cost overruns happened.

Any one ever hear of cost underruns? When the recession was in, projects were finished under budget.

Boulder Dam in the 1930's, apparently was one of them.

Right now with experienced help being not available, everything being built is costing more, especially when one doesn't plan to include taxes, or interior finishes in your costing!

harper is trying to stay away from this one because of this forum and all th nasty comments.

Why is anyone blaming the Aspers when this is a federal, provincial and City project?

What is the matter with you ?

This was pitched to the 3 levels of government and was accepted by the 3 levels of government.

Maybe The Crocus fund can offer some financing?


_________________
They cut my back open ! Help!
http://www.elansofas.com

Stonekiller

avatar
contributor
contributor
At this point does it matter? Realistically the money has to come from somewhere, the thing can't sit there unfinished. Failure at this point isn't an option. I wonder if the Manitoba museum could use the space better or the children's museum.


Deank

avatar
contributor eminence
contributor eminence
You know what happened in the Simpons when they took this exact same building and built it for art? It failed almost immediately so they turned it into a jail

We do need some new jails in MB...


_________________
Why do we call them fingers if no one has ever seen them fing?

Deank

avatar
contributor eminence
contributor eminence


_________________
Why do we call them fingers if no one has ever seen them fing?

Triniman

avatar
general-contributor
general-contributor
Canada is flush with wealthy citizens and corporations. I'd love to know why they are turning down Gail's "asks."


_________________
“Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through
our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that
democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'



― Isaac Asimov

Stonekiller

avatar
contributor
contributor
Yes cause The Simpson is looking glass of reality... Honestly I don't care if its used to house a Museum of teacups. Finish the damn thing and move forward with other sh1t.

Deank

avatar
contributor eminence
contributor eminence
Stonekiller wrote:At this point does it matter? Realistically the money has to come from somewhere, the thing can't sit there unfinished. Failure at this point isn't an option. I wonder if the Manitoba museum could use the space better or the children's museum.



Be a hell of a place for the Western Canada Aviation Museum


_________________
Why do we call them fingers if no one has ever seen them fing?

Stonekiller

avatar
contributor
contributor
I'd pay money to see that.

justmythoughts

avatar

Why is anyone blaming the Aspers when this is a federal, provincial and City project?

What is the matter with you ?

This was pitched to the 3 levels of government and was accepted by the 3 levels of government.

Yes it was accepted by all 3 levels of government. All 3 levels of government have lived up to their respective promised financial commitments in regards to the CMHR.

You want to place blame? Look no further to Gail Asper and her "Friends" who vowed to the Senate committee up down and sideways that they and only they would cover any and all cost over-runs.
They even vowed to have a contingency fund in place to pay for any over-runs.

Government delivered to the CMHR what was promised. Now it's up to Gail and her "Friends".

Sponsored content


View previous topic View next topic Back to top  Message [Page 2 of 5]

Go to page : Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next

Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum